InterVarsity forces two leaders to step down due to conflict of beliefs
InterVarsity Christian Fellowship removed students from leadership in its Trinity chapter last spring due to noncompliance with the organization’s Biblical Standards of Leadership. One student was demoted because she dated someone who did not share her Christian faith, while another student was removed from her position because she no longer believed in hell.“To be a leader means that you have a role of spiritual authority in our organization,” said Thomas Bell, president of IVCF. “To be in a role of spiritual authority requires that you exhibit Christ-like behavior. We know that we live in a world with values vastly different than our own, and we prefer to adhere to a biblical standard of behavior.”...
Jim Lincoln wrote: a] some had an indication of who He was at the Transfiguration
b] Matthew 7 16 "You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes, nor figs from thistles, are they? 17 "Even .......
20 "So then, you will know them by their fruits
a) Jim. At the transfiguration some knew there was something definitely different about Christ. As with the feeding of the 5000 and the calming of the wind and the sea whilst walking on water. But the question is did they KNOW/believe He was the "Son of God" and the promised "Messiah?" If so, why did they not believe the two Mary's and the Emmaus guys? just after the resurrection.
(Perhaps because it takes the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth in human hearts)?
b) As for froot-pickin'??? This takes some time in mortals to make the final analysis/decision and even then sin creates doubts in the sinner.
Wekrock, some had an indication of who He was at the Transfiguration is one example, but there are more. I would suggest that you read the summary to the sermon, The King of the Prophesied Kingdom. More detail is in the sermon of course,
As far as being Christian:
Matthew 7 16 "You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes, nor figs from thistles, are they? 17 "Even so, every good tree bears good fruit; but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19 "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 "So then, you will know them by their fruits.---NASB
samphire wrote: When Jesus was ministering 2000 years ago, how could people tell that He was the Son of God? Think about it.
They did not think that He was the Son of God. Up to that point the Jews had thought in terms of God being ONE and ONE only! Even the disciples thought He had died upon the cross forever, it was a shock to them when He resurrected and walked back in amongst them. Mark 16:14 "Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen."
Wekrock wrote: I simply added the Calvin quote because I knew he supported my reading of the text. I can think for myself Joe, the insult was unnecessary!
Joe the Protestant wrote: I have heard othe rpeople make the statement that the Cor. verse does not refer to marriage, but the only reason I have found that they do so is that they have either read it or heard it from someone that they follow. The plain reading of the text will lead one to believe the verse includes marriage.
I simply added the Calvin quote because I knew he supported my reading of the text. I can think for myself Joe, the insult was unnecessary! The text clearly follows the previous chapters of 2Cor. Clearly 2Cor follows on from Paul's remarks in 1Cor, and this helps explain his 2Cor theme.
In chapter 6 Paul is defending his ministry because of the false teachers who had influenced the Corinthian church. First part of the chapter is defending. Second part is reaching out to the church to separate themselves from the worldly influences - that is where v14 comes in as "unequally yoked" together with 15, 16, and their analogies. Finally 17 "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you." Note the "unclean thing" is not marriage!
Wekrock wrote: Note "unequally yoked" is not about marriage.
Granted Unequally yolked, has a wider application than just marriage, but there is no way the injunction rules out marriage. For how much more can someone be yolked but in marriage?
I have heard othe rpeople make the statement that the Cor. verse does not refer to marriage, but the only reason I have found that they do so is that they have either read it or heard it from someone that they follow. The plain reading of the text will lead one to believe the verse includes marriage.
Joe the Protestant wrote: For Paul commands not to be unequaly yolked together with unbelievers.
As to your use of Mat.7. I gather you
The point I make on Matt 7:21-23 is that if you were to marry one of those people - who appear completely convinced they are believers - you might marry someone Christ rejects as "workers of iniquity" (v23).
Note "unequally yoked" is not about marriage. 2Cor 6:14 "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?" Here Paul warns the Christian not to get involved with idolatry. As Calvin puts it on this verse; - "On this account Paul inveighs here against outward idolatry, and exhorts Christians to stand aloof from it, and have no connection with it. He begins, however, with a general statement, with the view of coming down from that to a particular instance, for to be yoked with unbelievers means nothing less than to have fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness"
As for "telling" whether a person is elect or not - Yes you can listen to their words, but time and experience is a more accurate evidence. But even then can mortals "read hearts"?
Wekrock wrote: How can any mortal tell whether the person they marry is a Christian, or not? EG Matt 7:21-23, Rev 3:14ff etc. Secondly how can a mortal tell, or not, whether a person is going to become a Christian in the future?
If what you are proposing were true, The word of Paul in 1st Cor. would be meaningless. For Paul commands not to be unequaly yolked together with unbelievers. So, there must be some way to tell. Not the least of which would be, if the person blatantly says they are not save, don't want to be, and shows evidence to back it up.
As to your use of Mat.7. I gather you are trying to refer to ch.7 v.1-5. The judgment clause obviously does not refer to being able to discern things, or recognize evil. Look at what Jesus himself says in Mat. 7:6,13-20.
The judgemnt clause refers to passing sentence without investigation. It also refers to being critical. But the main thrust is Jesus saying, that if you are going to judge, make sure that you are willing to be judged be the same standards you use to judge.
samphire wrote: You said it yourself, Wekrock... that circumstance only applies to those who were married before they met Christ. For any believer to date an unbeliever is either madness (mental illness) or it betokens a very shallow relationship with the Lord (immaturity) or it demonstrates that the person is, in fact, unregenerate (doesn't know the Lord at all) and is just pretending to be a Christian. What fellowship does light have with darkness?
How can any mortal tell whether the person they marry is a Christian, or not? EG Matt 7:21-23, Rev 3:14ff etc.
Secondly how can a mortal tell, or not, whether a person is going to become a Christian in the future?
The elect do not know themselves, in truth on earth!
John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
You said it yourself, Wekrock... that circumstance only applies to those who were married before they met Christ. For any believer to date an unbeliever is either madness (mental illness) or it betokens a very shallow relationship with the Lord (immaturity) or it demonstrates that the person is, in fact, unregenerate (doesn't know the Lord at all) and is just pretending to be a Christian. What fellowship does light have with darkness?
"One student was demoted because she dated someone who did not share her Christian faith"
Then how do you arrive at this Biblically recorded circumstance?
1Cor 7:12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. 13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. 14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy."
(Notwithstanding both nonChristian prior to marriage)
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