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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  10/21/2014
SATURDAY, JUL 3, 2010  |  28 comments
Think You're Operating on Free Will? Think Again
Studies have found that upon entering an office, people behave more competitively when they see a sharp leather briefcase on the desk, they talk more softly when there is a picture of a library on the wall, and they keep their desk tidier when there is a vague scent of cleaning agent in the air. But none of them are consciously aware of the influence of their environment.

There may be few things more fundamental to human identity than the belief that people are rational individuals whose behavior is determined by conscious choices. But recently psychologists have compiled an impressive body of research that shows how deeply our decisions and behavior are influenced by unconscious thought, and how greatly those thoughts are swayed by stimuli beyond our immediate comprehension. ...


CLICK HERE to Read Entire Article
www.time.com

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· Page 1 ·  Found: 28 user comment(s)
News Item7/7/10 9:18 AM
Gmist  Find all comments by Gmist
Mike wrote:
But comprehension is there nonetheless.
"Most sin is invisible to the sinner because it is simply how the sinner works, how the sinner perceives, wants, and interprets things. Once we see sin for what it really is - madness and evil intentions in our hearts, absence of any fear of God, slavery to various passions (Eccl. 9:3; Gen. 6:5; Ps. 36:1; Titus 3:3) - then it becomes easier to see how sin is the immediate and specific problem all counseling deals with at every moment, not a general and remote problem. The core insanity of the human heart is that we violate the first great commandment. We will love anything, except God, unless our madness is checked by grace.

People do not tend to see sin as applying to relatively unconscious problems, to the deep, interesting, and bedeviling stuff in our hearts. But God's descriptions of sin often highlight the unconscious aspect. Sin - the desires we pursue, the beliefs we hold, the habits we obey as second nature - is intrinsically deceitful. If we knew we were deceived, we would not be deceived. But we are deceived, unless awakened through God's truth and Spirit."
(David Powlison)

28

News Item7/7/10 1:29 AM
Jessica Dawson  Find all comments by Jessica Dawson
2 Corinthians 8:2-4 that in a great trial of affliction the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty abounded in the riches of their liberality. For I bear witness that according to their ability, yes, and beyond their ability, they were freely willing, imploring us with much urgency that we would receive the gift and the fellowship of the ministering to the saints.

The Christians, having been born again were free to do good: Yet those who walk in sin are slaves to sin and need Jesus to break their bondages to sin.

John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

James 4:8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.

God asks us to draw near to Him: In this He is drawing us unto Himself, God draw us more!

27

News Item7/6/10 8:03 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Gmist wrote:
---
When you are "dead in sin" - You must first be quickened (by the Holy Spirit) to fully comprehend the power and true capacity on the mortal life of sin. And when children of wrath Satan blinds them to the truth of their sinful existence 2Cor 4:4.
Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
Gmist, there is no question the non-believing sinner does not FULLY comprehend sin. But comprehension is there nonetheless. All men are without excuse. There's a reason for that.

The blindness of which you speak is to the depth of the sinfulness of sin, not sin per se. Thus the sinner worries not about how evil his sin is, but whether he can get away with it. And so he hates the light.

26

News Item7/6/10 3:52 PM
Gmist  Find all comments by Gmist
Mike wrote:
The sinner does indeed know what sin is. The Book says he loves darkness rather than light. Think about it. Why does he want to hide in darkness if he doesn't know sin from the back end of a bus?
Mike
Todays SermonAudio quote from history on this day, by the news items is.....

""On July 6 In 1941, English Bible expositor Arthur W. Pink observed in a letter: 'It is those who walk the closest with God who are most conscious of their sins.'""

Also
When you are "dead in sin" - You must first be quickened (by the Holy Spirit) to fully comprehend the power and true capacity on the mortal life of sin. And when children of wrath Satan blinds them to the truth of their sinful existence 2Cor 4:4.

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

25

News Item7/6/10 1:13 PM
Joe the Protestant  Find all comments by Joe the Protestant
freedwill wrote:
Greetings Joe
The article is highlighting Rome's Council of Trent (counter-reformation) semi-pelagianism canons and its' anathema against the Reformed and Biblical teaching of divine monergism in salvation.
Hope this clarifies as you will have seen quite a few counter-reformation posts on sermonaudio by some holding to semi-pelagianism and bitterly anti-reformed
Truly glad God has given you grace and opened eyes
"Trent at Odds with Augustine and the councils of the early church."Reading the first paragraph-self explanatory
Thanks for the clarification. At first glace I thought you were on board with the Pellagian view.
24

News Item7/6/10 12:32 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Gmist wrote:
Now Mike, stop trying to trick folks into following Jacob Arminius.
Quote; "before the will is freed, man chooses sin" eoq. -
Before the will is freed the sinner wouldn't know sin from the back end of a bus! Thus the sinner in his natural estate can't make the decision to seek Christ, because of the bondage of the will.
"Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God."
Trick folks? Truth oft seems like tricks, I suppose.

Man cannot save himself. Yet his will is free. You'll have to reconcile these things.

The sinner does indeed know what sin is. The Book says he loves darkness rather than light. Think about it. Why does he want to hide in darkness if he doesn't know sin from the back end of a bus?

John 3:20 "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved."

23

News Item7/6/10 11:17 AM
Gmist  Find all comments by Gmist
Mike wrote:
It is interesting to think that before the will is freed, man chooses sin because he wants to, but after it is freed, he chooses sin but doesn't like the results. Seems more like a matter of an enlightened conscience rather than of freed will.
Now Mike, stop trying to trick folks into following Jacob Arminius.

Quote; "before the will is freed, man chooses sin" eoq. -
Before the will is freed the sinner wouldn't know sin from the back end of a bus! Thus the sinner in his natural estate can't make the decision to seek Christ, because of the bondage of the will.

"Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God."

22

News Item7/5/10 1:13 PM
Alan H | Washington State  Protected NameFind all comments by Alan H
Mike I think you need to rethink your theory; it is contrary to Scripture...

“For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.” Ro 7:14

“For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 7:15

“If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 7:16

“Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me." 7:17

“For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 7:18

“For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 7:19

“Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 7:20

“I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 7:21

“For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 7:22

“But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 7:23

“ O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 7:24

“I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.” 7:25

21

News Item7/4/10 5:13 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
It is interesting to think that before the will is freed, man chooses sin because he wants to, but after it is freed, he chooses sin but doesn't like the results. Seems more like a matter of an enlightened conscience rather than of freed will.
20

News Item7/4/10 7:03 AM
freedwill  Find all comments by freedwill
Joe the Protestant wrote:
Strange that you would find on Monergism, quotes that represent a document that is Sinner-gistic.
Greetings Joe

The article is highlighting Rome's Council of Trent (counter-reformation) semi-pelagianism canons and its' anathema against the Reformed and Biblical teaching of divine monergism in salvation.

Hope this clarifies as you will have seen quite a few counter-reformation posts on sermonaudio by some holding to semi-pelagianism and bitterly anti-reformed

Truly glad God has given you grace and opened eyes

"Trent at Odds with Augustine and the councils of the early church."Reading the first paragraph-self explanatory

19

News Item7/4/10 3:35 AM
Publican | Northern Hemisphere  Find all comments by Publican
You can only be what you are.
A man may no more choose God, while in an unregenerate state, than he may choose to be a cat in his original birth.
A man may no more 'choose' God, when he has been reborn, than he may choose to be human in his original birth.
When the Lord reveals Himself and yourself to you, and 'rebirths' you into 'the kingdom of His dear Son', there is no choice to be made.
You can only be what you are.
18

News Item7/3/10 8:52 PM
fyi  Find all comments by fyi
Here's a sound biblical teaching on the will of man concerning the ability to come to Christ, http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=83004134236

Or this link, http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0182.htm
I do like this passage from Ephesians 2:1 concerning our will/ability to choose Christ apart from divine grace, 'you, who were dead in sin, He made alive'...

The foolish pride of a sinful heart demands credit for his part in salvation, yet, the Lord insists 'salvation is of the Lord'. If we 'choose Jesus' it's only because God has brought us low, crushed us under the weight of our sins, and granted us repentance leading to salvation.

You can choose your brand of cereal, you can choose a tie color, but you simply cannot choose to believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ UNLESS God has first done a work in you. We are dead in sin until the supernatural power of God awakens us, draws us {John 6:44} and, by grace, saves us {Eph. 2:8,9).

17

News Item7/3/10 8:50 PM
Joe the Protestant  Find all comments by Joe the Protestant
freedwill wrote:
It seems Reformed Protestants are the ones accursed
Be certain we understand what the Anti-christ system teaches on free will as false doctrine will certainly be found in a church near you
CANON IV. If any one shall affirm, that man’s freewill, moved and excited by God, does not, by consenting, cooperate with God, the mover and exciter, so as to prepare and dispose itself for the attainment of justification; if moreover, anyone shall say, that the human will cannot refuse complying, if it pleases, but that it is inactive, and merely passive; let such an one be accursed"!
CANON V.- If anyone shall affirm, that since the fall of Adam, man’s freewill is lost and extinguished; or, that it is a thing titular, yea a name, without a thing, and a fiction introduced by Satan into the Church; let such an one be accursed"!
http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/counciltrent.html
Strange that you would find on Monergism, quotes that represent a document that is Sinner-gistic.
16

News Item7/3/10 6:51 PM
John UK | Wales  Contact via emailFind all comments by John UK
Robinthehood wrote:
Don't forget Tiny Lopez who has read Edwards and Luther extensively...
"A Young "Born-Again" Christian I Bathed Myself In The Works Of Jonathan Edwards, George Whitefield & Many Ante-Nicean/Post-Nicean Predestinarians;"
I can't wait for his further input and wisdom as the third smartie
"I reckon the River Trent in Nottinghamshire has got more sense than this council. And better fishing too!"
satanicus vaticanus fisherman
Yee ha!

Typical papist, trying to fish with his rod upside down.

15

News Item7/3/10 6:25 PM
Robinthehood  Find all comments by Robinthehood
Rick wrote:
You will have to consult two people who are a lot smarter than me on the subject. Luther and Edwards. Luther's "Bondage of the Will" and Edwards "Freedom of the Will"
Don't forget Tiny Lopez who has read Edwards and Luther extensively...

"A Young "Born-Again" Christian I Bathed Myself In The Works Of Jonathan Edwards, George Whitefield & Many Ante-Nicean/Post-Nicean Predestinarians;"

I can't wait for his further input and wisdom as the third smartie

"I reckon the River Trent in Nottinghamshire has got more sense than this council. And better fishing too!"

satanicus vaticanus fisherman

14

News Item7/3/10 6:15 PM
John UK | Wales  Contact via emailFind all comments by John UK
freedwill wrote:
It seems Reformed Protestants are the ones accursed
Be certain we understand what the Anti-christ system teaches on free will as false doctrine will certainly be found in a church near you
CANON IV. If any one shall affirm, that man’s freewill, moved and excited by God, does not, by consenting, cooperate with God, the mover and exciter, so as to prepare and dispose itself for the attainment of justification; if moreover, anyone shall say, that the human will cannot refuse complying, if it pleases, but that it is inactive, and merely passive; let such an one be accursed"!
CANON V.- If anyone shall affirm, that since the fall of Adam, man’s freewill is lost and extinguished; or, that it is a thing titular, yea a name, without a thing, and a fiction introduced by Satan into the Church; let such an one be accursed"!
http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/counciltrent.html
I reckon the River Trent in Nottinghamshire has got more sense than this council. And better fishing too!
13

News Item7/3/10 6:13 PM
Rick | Alabama  Find all comments by Rick
Mike wrote:
What is the difference between the Christian who obeys the sin nature and the one who doesn't, all else being equal? Is his will still enslaved?
You will have to consult two people who are a lot smarter than me on the subject. Luther and Edwards. Luther's "Bondage of the Will" and Edwards "Freedom of the Will"
12

News Item7/3/10 6:01 PM
freedwill  Find all comments by freedwill
It seems Reformed Protestants are the ones accursed

Be certain we understand what the Anti-christ system teaches on free will as false doctrine will certainly be found in a church near you

CANON IV. If any one shall affirm, that man’s freewill, moved and excited by God, does not, by consenting, cooperate with God, the mover and exciter, so as to prepare and dispose itself for the attainment of justification; if moreover, anyone shall say, that the human will cannot refuse complying, if it pleases, but that it is inactive, and merely passive; let such an one be accursed"!

CANON V.- If anyone shall affirm, that since the fall of Adam, man’s freewill is lost and extinguished; or, that it is a thing titular, yea a name, without a thing, and a fiction introduced by Satan into the Church; let such an one be accursed"!

http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/counciltrent.html

11

News Item7/3/10 5:23 PM
Tony Lopez-Cisneros  Find all comments by Tony Lopez-Cisneros
Rick wrote:
To say that the Will is not Free...
"Rick": Let's See What THE ETERNAL PRESERVED WORD OF GOD Says About Man's Free Will:

AS THE HISTORIC AUTHORIZED HOLY BIBLE-SCRIPTURES MENTION THE "FREEWILL" OF MAN SEVENTEEN (17) TIMES !

"Speak Unto Aaron, And To His Sons, And Unto All The Children Of Israel, And Say Unto Them, Whatsoever He Be Of The House Of Israel, Or Of The Strangers In Israel, That Will Offer His Oblation For All His Vows, And For All His FREEWILL Offerings, Which They Will Offer Unto The LORD For A Burnt Offering:" Leviticus 22:18

"And Whosoever Offereth A Sacrifice Of Peace Offerings Unto The LORD To Accomplish His Vow, Or A FREEWILL Offering In Beeves Or Sheep, It Shall Be Perfect To Be Accepted; There Shall Be No Blemish Therein." Leviticus 22:21

"Either A Bullock Or A Lamb That Hath Any Thing Superfluous Or lacking In His Parts, That Mayest Thou Offer For A FREEWILL Offering; But For A Vow It Shall Not Be Accepted." Leviticus 22:23

"Besides The Sabbaths Of The LORD, And Besides Your Gifts, And Besides All Your Vows, And Beside All Your FREEWILL Offerings, Which Ye Give Unto The LORD." Leviticus 23:38

"ACCEPT, I BESEECH THEE, THE FREEWILL OFFERINGS OF MY MOUTH, O LORD, AND TEACH ME THY JUDGMENTS." PSALM 119:108 !

10

News Item7/3/10 5:00 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Rick wrote:
To say that the Will is not Free, is not the same thing as saying the Will does not exist. Many times Reformed and Calvinistic people are accused of saying that people do not have a will, or that they do not make choices; that God just moves them around arbitrarily. That is a wrong caracticure. Calvin, Spurgeon, The WMC, the London Bapt. Conf. ect. All recognize that we do make choices, but that those choices are contingent on several things. Not the least of which is that we all are born with a nature bent toweard sin. Inbred sin, and actual personal sins, limit our choices and ensalve the will.
For if anyone is to be saved, it is God that must first show them that they are lost, give them the desire to be saved, and enable their will to turn to him. Free will is such an overused, and misunderstood term; the better term to use would be Universal Responsibility.
Agree with some of what you say. But a problem if one believes the will is by its design free, thus if it were not free, it wouldn't be a will at all.

One's "will-enablement" does not result in sinlessness, does it? What is the difference between the Christian who obeys the sin nature and the one who doesn't, all else being equal? Is his will still enslaved?

9
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