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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  8/20/2014
FRIDAY, DEC 11, 2009  |  36 comments
Teachers forced to 'hide in closets' to pray
According to the group, school officials are strictly prohibited from showing agreement with anyone "communicating with a deity," such as "bowing the head" or "folding hands." "School officials" must also prohibit "third-parties" from praying, Liberty Counsel said.

During testimony that ended last week, Christian employees said the order has literally driven them to hide in closets to pray to avoid contempt charges.


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· Page 1 ·  Found: 36 user comment(s)
News Item12/27/09 8:21 AM
John UK | Wales  Contact via emailFind all comments by John UK
Norman Smith wrote:
To Jim,John,Ernie, Michael,and Alan,
just a quick note to say hi...i have been reading with interest all the posts regarding joining a local church.
Mainly though posting here to wish you all a blessed new year..maybe 2010 is the year we are called home to be with the Lord ?If not,may we all serve Him faithfully and willingly who gave His all for us.
God bless you all my dear brethren ,and your loved ones.
I love you all in the Lord Jesus.
Jude 21
Norman
God bless you dear brother Norman, whom I love in the Lord, and may you have a rich time of witnessing throughout 2010, with your banner and tracts, and preaching too.

We've just been listening to AW Tozer preaching on Acts 1:8 and been greatly inspired towards evangelising within the context of a godly life, bearing all the fruit of the Spirit, and leading others to know there is a different life in Christ, which others may see and admire. To God be the glory, great things he hath done, and is doing in our lives.

36

News Item12/27/09 5:51 AM
Norman Smith | New Haw,Surrey,England  Contact via emailFind all comments by Norman Smith
To Jim,John,Ernie, Michael,and Alan,
just a quick note to say hi...i have been reading with interest all the posts regarding joining a local church.

Mainly though posting here to wish you all a blessed new year..maybe 2010 is the year we are called home to be with the Lord ?If not,may we all serve Him faithfully and willingly who gave His all for us.

God bless you all my dear brethren ,and your loved ones.

I love you all in the Lord Jesus.

Jude 21

Norman

35

News Item12/20/09 9:34 PM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
Jim Lincoln wrote:
Elders of Indian Hills Community
......
The Church is the only agency so recognized as the body of Christ. The local church is her only manifestation. Therefore, membership in a local church is not optional for a believer. (Eph. 1:22-23)
Jim Lincoln
Ahhhhh????
What if the "local church" is in disobedience to the Lord Jesus Christ?

Haven't your "elders" read Rev 2 and 3?
Five of the Seven "local churches" the Lord Jesus Christ tells to
REPENT

Some "manifestation" of the body of Christ there, yea, right.
(by the way if they had REPENTED would have been a good witness indeed)

As to being "so much better" than those around me (us) in a word "garbage!" I cannot speak for others but think many have the same kind of feeling I do, "it is not that we are better as we know left to ourselves are horribly wretched and long for the encouragement of a strong faithful church that is seeking the face of God, one that will encourage us in being faithful to Him and not one that will sabotage us or stab us in the back in what God has called us to, or one that treats a passion to serve Christ and be holy and faithul to Him and to the Word of God as somekind of aberrant disease."

Thanks

34

News Item12/20/09 4:12 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Yes, I will agree with ErnieG on that one,
"Thank you John and Michael for taking what I commented the way it was intended. You are right that many churches are lax and givng ear tickling messages. If you feel the way you do, you should address the pastor and/or start your own ministries...."
One has to think why am I so much better that I can't find a good church around me? One should look at oneself to make sure that self-centeredness is not blocking you from joining a church, if not then start your own with like-minded people.
Elders of Indian Hills Community Church in the Statement of Faith wrote:
26 [Art.11] Body of Christ: The church is the manifestation of the Body of Christ on earth. The Church is the only agency so recognized as the body of Christ. The local church is her only manifestation. Therefore, membership in a local church is not optional for a believer. (Eph. 1:22-23)
Ephesians 1
22 And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church,
23 which is His body, the fulness of Him who fills all in all.---NASB
33

News Item12/20/09 5:47 AM
John UK | Wales  Contact via emailFind all comments by John UK
ErnieG wrote:
Thank you John and Michael for taking what I commented the way it was intended. You are right that many churches are lax and givng ear tickling messages. If you feel the way you do, you should address the pastor and/or start your own ministries.
There are three FIBaptist Churches here and I am praying that the Lord will allow me to preach/teach in a home for the homeless veterans also provide them with food, clothing, shelter, work, and phyiscal problems so that they will regain their self worth and be productive citizens again with Jesus Christ as their Saviour the rest of their lives.
I am waiting approval on a 5br home and have a Christian brother with experience to assist. Lord willing, we will have bible study and a music ministry 5 nights a week. This will be a non profit org and some mandatory attendance will be required. It is called the "Hedges and Highways Ministry".
The 3 FIB churches here are ALL based on Jesus Christ Only for salvation and they all use the KJV, so we are like-minded on those important issues. So I will also work with them for Sunday services.
Please pray that this is God's will for me in the last mile. I can do nothing without Jesus Christ being in this endeavour.
Exciting bro
32

News Item12/19/09 10:55 PM
ErnieG  Find all comments by ErnieG
Thank you John and Michael for taking what I commented the way it was intended. You are right that many churches are lax and givng ear tickling messages. If you feel the way you do, you should address the pastor and/or start your own ministries.

There are three FIBaptist Churches here and I am praying that the Lord will allow me to preach/teach in a home for the homeless veterans also provide them with food, clothing, shelter, work, and phyiscal problems so that they will regain their self worth and be productive citizens again with Jesus Christ as their Saviour the rest of their lives.

I am waiting approval on a 5br home and have a Christian brother with experience to assist. Lord willing, we will have bible study and a music ministry 5 nights a week. This will be a non profit org and some mandatory attendance will be required. It is called the "Hedges and Highways Ministry".

The 3 FIB churches here are ALL based on Jesus Christ Only for salvation and they all use the KJV, so we are like-minded on those important issues. So I will also work with them for Sunday services.

Please pray that this is God's will for me in the last mile. I can do nothing without Jesus Christ being in this endeavour.

Thanks, Jim, please take heed what has just been told you

31

News Item12/19/09 4:53 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
I'm glad to see ErnieG is attending a church again, no they are human organizations none are perfect, because they should be made up of believer/members, who will not be perfect in this life.

I would point out the little document, What to Look for in a Church.

Ah, savedbygrace, just one quote from what is really another short, piece, The Purpose of the Local Church and Community Issues.

Gil Rugh wrote:
There have been times when we have a been approached about getting involved in various community or social issues. 'If Indian Hills would get involved in,' organizers say, 'it would make such a difference!' Yes, our involvement may help their cause, but it would take strength and energy away from our God-given task-teaching the word!...Each believer has a conscience, and the freedom to decide before God what he will do with his time and energy. Many organizations are beneficial to society and if a Christian is involved, it should be because he wants his testimony and the impact of his life, as a believer, felt there.
It's a worthwhile read!
30

News Item12/19/09 3:19 PM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
savedbygrace wrote:
Michael,
I believe that God is sovereign over all, even the judgment of nations.
savedbygrace
I would agree that God is sovereign over the universe and every living being in it.

That said I do not believe every living being in it is obedient to His will (sadly there are many enemies of the cross, frightfully some even behind the pulpits, microphones and TV cameras)...hence we should pray fervently that He might graciously and mercifully change things and bring them and us too into conformity with His good, acceptable and perfect will.

AND Rejoice when and as He does.

By the way we should separate from apostasy and open unrepentant disobedience, and if we need to seriously seek a group of faithful believers to serve Christ with.

29

News Item12/19/09 3:01 PM
savedbygrace | Harrisburg, PA  Find all comments by savedbygrace
Michael,

I believe that God is sovereign over all, even the judgment of nations. Although we should rest content in this(our citizenship is indeed in heaven)that does not mean that we should neglect our duty as good citizens, by continuing to take a stand for righteousness in society
as salt and light.

We are also citizens of earth and the Lord did not pray for our removal but the gospel is still the priority and must always be with us. Some only like to stand by Phil. 3:19 and almost take a monkish stand like Rome(Jim, not a personal attack, simply a statement).

"Through desire a man, having separated himself, seeketh and intermeddleth with all wisdom."
Proverbs 18:1

28

News Item12/19/09 2:28 PM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
ErnieG wrote:
John UK and Michael Hranek,

So ask yourselves, are you glorifying Jesus Christ by encouraging NOT attending church because of what YOU think?

ErnieG
I appreciate the post.

I will take it to heart and "refine" with the grace of God my commenting to encourage believers to seek out a faithfull congregation that they can in good conscience participate together with in serving the Lord Jesus Christ, knowing this will not be an easy task in the times we are living in.

Please do remember Jesus told us clearly, "See to it that no one misleads(NASB or decieves KJV) you.

We simply cannot encourage church membership in congregations that are deliberately setting themselves contrary to what God Himself teaches us to be and to be found doing as His children.

Isaiah 9
Yes in the same chapter God tells us'

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

warns us of something that should sober us in considering present day church leadershp

"For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed."

Thanks
ErnieG
John

27

News Item12/19/09 12:27 PM
John UK | Wales  Contact via emailFind all comments by John UK
ErnieG wrote:
So ask yourselves, are you glorifying Jesus Christ by encouraging NOT attending church because of what YOU think?
Thank you Ernie for your concern.

I would never try to disuade folks from getting together to worship God, learn of him, and pray together in the power of the Holy Ghost.

In fact, I would heartily recommend as a truly great piece of literature, the booklet by Peter Masters of the Metropolitan Tabernacle, London, on the whole subject of "Church, and its Membership". This is truly an eye-opener as to what "church" is truly all about.

In this booklet is an exhortation to church membership for individual Christians, and an exposition of the church's responsibilities towards its membership. My problem is that I get rather tired of trying to take my place (you tried becoming a church member recently?) as a member of the local church, while there is NO reciprocal response from churches almost in apostasy. For an example, I know personally hardly a single fellowship which encourages each member to play their part in some form of ministry. The pastor/people divide precludes this.

And this is what makes me very sad.

26

News Item12/19/09 12:04 PM
ErnieG  Find all comments by ErnieG
John UK and Michael Hranek,

Since I have e-mailed both of you and have much respect and love for you, what I am going to say is for your spirtual growth as well as mine. Because what you both are in agreement regarding the church's lack of prayer, etc. I had have also stopped attending for similiar reasons until last week after my accountablity partner read to me 1 Tim 12:19-31 regarding the body and members.

Tim 12:25 "That there should be no "schism" in the body, but that the members should have the same care one for another."

Schism is defined as split or division caused by difference of opinon. What you both are posting causes division because it is not encouraging others to go to church. You both agree on the same issue and are giving your reasons why you are not attending does not edify or build up the church of Christ which is the body and NOT a building.

Remember that "God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues." Being an isolated Christian is not the way we are to worship God as this chapter advises us.

So ask yourselves, are you glorifying Jesus Christ by encouraging NOT attending church because of what YOU think?

25

News Item12/19/09 7:35 AM
John UK | Wales  Contact via emailFind all comments by John UK
Michael Hranek wrote:
In thinking on this issue of "Teachers forced to 'hide in closets' to pray" IMHO a large part of this problem developed because we haven't done what Jesus told us to be doing and in this neglect we've abandoned the world to Satan...both by some calling themselves "Baptist" (its all going to get worse and worse so we're waiting for the Rapture) and by some calling themselves "Reformed" (everything that is happening must be the preordained will of God so we're just preserving to the end).
So we have these and other convient excuses to neglect fervant prayer, especially as in so many churches pastors are not leading anykind of real church prayer meetings, and in neglecting fervant prayer we neglect the Great Commission, and again how few churches have any real emphasis in going out to the lost with the gospel in the Spirit's mighty power because they've been on their faces before God?
I guess too many and too many "pastors" just want a "safe and harmless" version of Christianity that will not get them into any trouble with the world or make them look too "religious".
I couldn't have put it better myself, Michael. It is getting increasingly rare to find a real "prayer meeting", and without this - nothing!
24

News Item12/19/09 6:04 AM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
savedbygrace

I believe you and virtually everyone posting here on SA already "knows"

Jesus taught us to pray: "Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done
ON EARTH
as it is in heaven."

In thinking on this issue of "Teachers forced to 'hide in closets' to pray" IMHO a large part of this problem developed because we haven't done what Jesus told us to be doing and in this neglect we've abandoned the world to Satan...both by some calling themselves "Baptist" (its all going to get worse and worse so we're waiting for the Rapture) and by some calling themselves "Reformed" (everything that is happening must be the preordained will of God so we're just preserving to the end).

So we have these and other convient excuses to neglect fervant prayer, especially as in so many churches pastors are not leading anykind of real church prayer meetings, and in neglecting fervant prayer we neglect the Great Commission, and again how few churches have any real emphasis in going out to the lost with the gospel in the Spirit's mighty power because they've been on their faces before God?

I guess too many and too many "pastors" just want a "safe and harmless" version of Christianity that will not get them into any trouble with the world or make them look too "religious".

23

News Item12/19/09 4:54 AM
savedbygrace | Harrisburg, PA  Find all comments by savedbygrace
Jim,

I don't really have the time to read over all of your links but I will try to read one of them, so I probably won't be posting until then.

You agree that the gov. should adopt the death penalty because God's Word prescribes it, yet you say that we should not look to the Bible as a basis for our law? ? ?
But, you have use for Biblical principles (death penalty, pro-life, anti-homosexuality, etc.) however, masquerading as a secular state?

Jim, there is nothing neutral here. Either we use Biblical principles and are blessed with an orderly and prosperous society (like former days)or
we use humanistic, secular, changing
(let each do what is right in his own eyes laws, like today) and immorality, lawlessness, etc., will reign.

22

News Item12/18/09 2:30 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
savedbygrace, I support the death penalty, as you have probably noted in the section about in Rendering To Caesar: A Biblical Perspective On Government so does my pastor. But no, I'm not for installing a dictatorship to enforce Old Testament law, as was pointed out in the article about, Theonomy. I have no use for an Islamic state masquerading as a Christian one. I even encourage you to vote, but it will be God's will that finally decides matters. This country was founded as a Masonic republic in a culture that gave lip service to Christianity, though greed has always been the main mover in the U.S. I have little trouble with Christians making their social views public, though playing the "Christian Card," apparently not only irks me as well as others, e.g., q.v., The Purpose of the Local Church and Community Issues.

It's a pity that the Republican party, boots out conservative Jews (probably because the antisemitism of Catholics, etc. (notice the "etc.") I consider many so-called Christian candidates demagogues. Hmm, I guess there are conservative Masons as well.

21

News Item12/18/09 4:17 AM
savedbygrace | Harrisburg, PA  Find all comments by savedbygrace
Jim,

"Don't waste your time", did not answer the questions.

So you would be totally in favor of applying mankinds lower laws over any Biblical principles?

For instance, we know that a general principle established by a just and holy God is that blood is required for the spilling of blood in a murder situation. In America today, many states have repealed the death penalty, yet, we realize that God says that if his law is applied to civil gov. then man's depraved heart (we are ingrained with sin in all of our parts, however if we are left free reign, men would begin to engage in the most heinous of acts.), would actually fear punishment, according to Romans(yes, the UNSAVED!)

Therefore, God says that the death penalty is a restraint, yet, you surely would not want a lower standard of man that would abolish this truth would you?

20

News Item12/17/09 5:31 PM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
Barry from KY wrote:
I don't think praying in private is "cowardice". You can hang a sign around your neck declaring your choice of Christianity and walk up and down the streets if you want. This is America, it's perfectly legal. I just think that anyone that stands up and prays and prays, siting verses in the bible and going on and on in public is not what Jesus taught. I don't think prayers like that make it past the ceiling of the church, school or anywhere. I'm not ashamed of my Savior, just trying to follow His example...
Barry KY
Ever read Daniel?
Do you remember what got Daniel thrown into the lions den? And please notice it didn't get a whole lot of other Jews thrown in there with him did it?

Now think just a minute with me about "church" in the present time. Isn't so "convient" for a pastor to tell "his flock" to tone down any public expression of faith because we shouldn't offend anybody or get into trouble because that might make us look bad.

As for these teachers let think hypothetically. Suppose one of their teacher friends gets a phone call of a spouse being in a serious traffic accident would they have your premission to ask their friend, "Can I pray for you?" And if the answer is Yes. How about right there?
Comment?

19

News Item12/17/09 2:27 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
savedbygrace, what advice I would give? Don't waste your time! You notice that the apostle Paul never went around trying to reform the government of the Roman Empire or the practices of its people, because, the only way they possibly could reform is to become Christian. Reform only comes by one person at a time. Besides that God said the nations aren't going to reform. Eschatology

Philippians 3
17 Brethren, join in following my example, and observe those who walk according to the pattern you have in us.
18 For many walk, of whom I often told you, and now tell you even weeping, that they are enemies of the cross of Christ,
19 whose end is destruction, whose god is their appetite, and whose glory is in their shame, who set their minds on earthly things.
20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;---NASB

How the Church Relates to the Kingdom

18

News Item12/16/09 9:27 AM
Barry from KY | Northern KY  Find all comments by Barry from KY
I don't think praying in private is "cowardice". You can hang a sign around your neck declaring your choice of Christianity and walk up and down the streets if you want. This is America, it's perfectly legal. I just think that anyone that stands up and prays and prays, siting verses in the bible and going on and on in public is not what Jesus taught. I don't think prayers like that make it past the ceiling of the church, school or anywhere. I'm not ashamed of my Savior, just trying to follow His example...
17
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