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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  10/31/2014
MONDAY, JUL 20, 2009  |  35 comments  |  1 commentary
Cheating SC gov says God will make him better
South Carolina Gov. Mark Sanford, still clinging to office after admitting to an extramarital affair, wrote in an opinion piece released Sunday that God will change him so he can emerge from the scandal a more humble and effective leader.

"(W)hile none of us has the chance to attend our own funeral, in many ways I feel like I was at my own in the past weeks, and surprisingly I am thankful for the perspective it has afforded," Sanford wrote in the opinion piece widely published online Sunday by South Carolina newspapers. ...


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· Page 1 ·  Found: 35 user comment(s)
News Item7/23/09 3:18 PM
Vic  Find all comments by Vic
AMillennialism wrote:
Why Vic. Did I step on your hypothesis by accident? Here is a couple of pointers from a good site to read. Hope this helps.
"Contrary to the dispensationalists‚Äô attempt to link its history to that of early premillennial Church Fathers, those ancient premillennialists held positions that are fundamentally out of accord with the very foundational principles of dispensationalism, foundations which Ryrie calls ‚Äúthe linchpin of dispensationalism‚ÄĚ, such as (1) a distinction between the Church and Israel (i.e., the Church is true Israel, ‚Äúthe true Israelitic race‚ÄĚ (Justin Martyr) and (2) that ‚ÄúJudaism ... has now come to an end‚ÄĚ (Justin Martyr).
Despite dispensationalism’s claim of antiquity through its association with historic premillennialism, it radically breaks with historic premillennialism by promoting a millennium that is fundamentally Judaic rather than Christian." (againstdispensationalism.com)
you need to check your pants,Joseph G

they're highly flammable

there are still people who believe the world is flat,and I'm willing to think that they probably have websites defending their view as well

35

News Item7/23/09 3:07 PM
AMillennialism  Find all comments by AMillennialism
Vic wrote:
another propagandist liar-are you writing out of malice or just genuine ignorance?
Why Vic. Did I step on your hypothesis by accident? Here is a couple of pointers from a good site to read. Hope this helps.

"Contrary to the dispensationalists‚Äô attempt to link its history to that of early premillennial Church Fathers, those ancient premillennialists held positions that are fundamentally out of accord with the very foundational principles of dispensationalism, foundations which Ryrie calls ‚Äúthe linchpin of dispensationalism‚ÄĚ, such as (1) a distinction between the Church and Israel (i.e., the Church is true Israel, ‚Äúthe true Israelitic race‚ÄĚ (Justin Martyr) and (2) that ‚ÄúJudaism ... has now come to an end‚ÄĚ (Justin Martyr).

Despite dispensationalism’s claim of antiquity through its association with historic premillennialism, it radically breaks with historic premillennialism by promoting a millennium that is fundamentally Judaic rather than Christian." (againstdispensationalism.com)

34

News Item7/23/09 12:06 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Mr. Dispy wrote:
Again your reply is ... no reply.
Prov. 26:4
Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
No answer
33

News Item7/23/09 11:57 AM
Vic  Find all comments by Vic
AMillennialism wrote:
Dispy
"Relying on the Bible" is good advice.
Those who really do rely on the Bible have never accepted Dispensational Premillennialism. Thats a fact. As is indicated in the historic statement below.
Whereas those who rely on poor old Margaret MacDonald, her visions, Darby and Scofield's horrendus mistranslation of Scripture are surely not going to be content with Scripture alone. Hence their preoccupation with adding lots and lots of mythology, (eg rapture) to the Bible.
Stick to the Bible. God knows best.
another propagandist liar-are you writing out of malice or just genuine ignorance?

keep telling a lie for long enough and people will believe it

Goebbels would be proud

32

News Item7/23/09 11:56 AM
Mr. Dispy  Find all comments by Mr. Dispy
AMillennialism wrote:
Dispy
"Relying on the Bible" is good advice.
Those who really do rely on the Bible have never accepted Dispensational Premillennialism. Thats a fact. As is indicated in the historic statement below.
Whereas those who rely on poor old Margaret MacDonald, her visions, Darby and Scofield's horrendus mistranslation of Scripture are surely not going to be content with Scripture alone. Hence their preoccupation with adding lots and lots of mythology, (eg rapture) to the Bible.
Stick to the Bible. God knows best.
Again your reply is ... no reply.

Prov. 26:4
Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

31

News Item7/23/09 11:34 AM
AMillennialism  Find all comments by AMillennialism
Mr. Dispy wrote:
trying to prove doctrine by what the so-called 'fathers' believed, rather than relying on the Bible.
Dispy
"Relying on the Bible" is good advice.

Those who really do rely on the Bible have never accepted Dispensational Premillennialism. Thats a fact. As is indicated in the historic statement below.

Whereas those who rely on poor old Margaret MacDonald, her visions, Darby and Scofield's horrendus mistranslation of Scripture are surely not going to be content with Scripture alone. Hence their preoccupation with adding lots and lots of mythology, (eg rapture) to the Bible.

Stick to the Bible. God knows best.

30

News Item7/23/09 11:27 AM
G woman | Wisconsin  Contact via emailFind all comments by G woman
No "good stuff" to make dramatic movies with -- nothing that Jack van Impe and Rexella could get their teeth into.)

wow ... i used to watch Jack and Rexella till i could no longer bear to see them grin whilst explaining their talking points... something about their teeth looking sharper and deadlier with every grin, plus the fact they are explaining some scary things and grinning all the while...

29

News Item7/23/09 10:54 AM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
They don't have just factions (e.g. Theonomists, FV, NPP, and Lord knows what else is being cooked up by their theologians), there are many "conservative" Presby denominations, all of which claim adherence to the WCF. Some, or possibly all, must be lying, or at best, they have loose ideas about subscriptionism (cf. 3rd Commandment). It reminds me of political candidates claiming they respect the Constitution. So it is a bit rich to hear Presbys complain about Baptist independency.

To paraphrase Nixon, "we are all independents now." Churches are like boxes of See's chocolates; you don't really know what's inside until you bite.

28

News Item7/23/09 10:26 AM
Biblicist  Find all comments by Biblicist
rogerant wrote:
This is how we ended up with all the denominations.
There is Reformed Theology, and then there are just various forms of unbelief!

So how do you account for the myriad factions in the Reformed churches? Just plain 'ol unbelief?

27

News Item7/22/09 7:06 PM
rogerant | missing in action  Contact via emailFind all comments by rogerant
Mr. Dispy wrote:
But one more time: although the Reformers recovered very important truth from the papists, they were not able to recover all the truth. In particular, they ignored eschatology and bungled ecclesiology, which is how we ended up with all the denominations.
The Reformers ignored eschatology and bungled ecclesiology? That is how we ended up with all the denominations?

This is how we ended up with all the denominations.

There is Reformed Theology, and then there are just various forms of unbelief!

PS. djc49? What happened to DJC49, and what are you doing in the library?

26

News Item7/22/09 5:14 PM
Mr. Dispy  Find all comments by Mr. Dispy
djc49 wrote:
As an addendum:
Those who have no part in the "first resurrection" have NOT been born again; never had eternal life; have been DEAD only to face the second death at their BODILY resurrection on the LAST DAY.
So the amill eternal life only lasts a thousand years?

View From History:
We could talk about these and other things that Justin Martyr, Hippolytus, Victorinus, Augustine, and other relatively early Christians believed, including various heresies that were perpetuated by them. On the other hand, there is another thread that shows the fruitlessness of trying to prove doctrine by what the so-called 'fathers' believed, rather than relying on the Bible.

25

News Item7/22/09 3:11 PM
djc49 | at the library  Find all comments by djc49
As an addendum:

Those who have no part in the "first resurrection" have NOT been born again; never had eternal life; have been DEAD only to face the second death at their BODILY resurrection on the LAST DAY.

And as Rev 20:6 proclaims:
"Blessed and holy IS HE that HATH part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, BUT THEY SHALL BE PRIESTS of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

Are you NOW not a priest of God and of Christ, *Mr. Dispy*? Do you NOW not enjoy all the benefits "in the heavenlies" including reigning with Christ over sin and death because of your union with Him in and by His resurrection?

Give Ephesians 1 a REAL good and thorough read! And while you're at it, go on to read and digest Eph 2. These two chapters of Scripture should clear out the Dizzy Spin Sational cobwebs as far as the indicitive of "who you are in Christ" and what it means to be united with Him -- NOW -- in His resurrection, i.e., "having a part in the FIRST resurrection" viz. Rev 20:5,6.

24

News Item7/22/09 2:55 PM
View From History  Find all comments by View From History
Mr. Dispy wrote:
And the spiritualizing interpretation continues, I'm sure, in this passage, since the Holy Spirit (according to amills) has no idea what he's talking about when he refers to the 'first resurrection' (which implies at least one other, separate resurrection - but maybe his grammar is poor, too).
Rev. 20:4-6
"The evidence in opposition to a separate rapture of the Church is largely that for a single bodily resurrection, for without two or more resurrections of bodies, there can be no separate rapture. Justin Martyr believed in a ‚Äúgeneral resurrection at which time the judgment of all men would likewise take place.‚ÄĚ Hippolytus believed in a single physical resurrection. Victorinus said, ‚ÄúThere are two resurrections. But the first resurrection is now of the souls that are by faith.‚ÄĚ From Augustine onward, the evidence is almost unanimous in favor of a single resurrection. The statement quoted above from Victorinus came to be the accepted view" (E. Carver)
23

News Item7/22/09 2:41 PM
djc49 | at the library  Find all comments by djc49
Mr. Dispy wrote:
And the spiritualizing interpretation continues, I'm sure, in this passage, since the Holy Spirit (according to amills) has no idea what he's talking about when he refers to the 'first resurrection' (which implies at least one other, separate resurrection - but maybe his grammar is poor, too).
Rev. 20:4-6
... But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years
There is NO "spiritualizing" by Amills concerning Rev 20:4-6, but rather an accurate interpretation of what this "first resurrection" is referring to, i.e., those who are "in Christ" -- those who are "born again." This new birth IS every believer's "first resurrection" from being DEAD. Dead in trespasses and sin. Dead to the Truth. Dead.

When one is converted, he becomes united with Christ in His life, death, AND resurrection. He obtains eternal LIFE! Only the physical natural body remains to be resurrected on the LAST DAY!

22

News Item7/22/09 2:27 PM
Mr. Dispy  Find all comments by Mr. Dispy
AMill wrote:
From my perspective I think these verses simply put into human perception terms, an allusion to the resurrection of the elect when Christ returns to judge. Something at this moment our poor little brains cannot fully comprehend, nor do they need to.
And the spiritualizing interpretation continues, I'm sure, in this passage, since the Holy Spirit (according to amills) has no idea what he's talking about when he refers to the 'first resurrection' (which implies at least one other, separate resurrection - but maybe his grammar is poor, too).

Rev. 20:4-6
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

21

News Item7/22/09 2:19 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Hmmm, apparently the topic has changed! You can bet that Governor Sanford isn't pre-mill, I doubt if he's a Christian, but since the topic was brought up. First you guys have to get your Resurrections correct, The Resurrections in Scripture, then you can go to Evidence for the Pre-Trib Rapture part 1 and Evidence for the Pre-Trib Rapture part 2. Ah, but some "light" reading material, gentlemen, Eschatology

I Corinthians 15:
50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51Behold, I tell you a mystery: We all shall not sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Rapture gentlemen. Reasoning for it, because God wants it that way.

20

News Item7/22/09 1:26 PM
djc49 | at the library  Find all comments by djc49
AMill wrote:
But in all seriousness Dispy; Why do you insist on this extraordinary supernatural interpretation viz "flying Christians" - "UNLESS" you combine it with the equally extraordinary millennial theory of Disp. PreMill?

WHAT IS TO BE ACHIEVED by the Lord in flying everybody concerned, both dead and living, UP IN THE AIR?

What's to be achieved?

Perhaps what is to be achieved is that the Lord can thereby show to an unbelieving world His ability to "pull off" such a remarkably ostentatious feat (hundreds of millions -- maybe BILLIONS -- of Christians flying up into the clouds) and STILL the "rapture" of the Church REMAINS a SECRET!

That's QUITE a feat!
Ha!

Can you imagine?.....
All over the world, Christians are literally flying BODILY up into natural cumulus clouds (to go where?) in the face of millions of eyewitnesses ... and the rapture will remain "secret"!!!

To top it off, this worldwide event will be some sort of "mystery" to those left behind who will STILL disbelieve during the so-called 7-year tribulation! Question is: Won't they have old Darby-Scofield-Chafer books that they could reference to tell them exactly what had just occurred?

Double Ha!

Pre-Mill/Pre-Trib Dizzy Spin Sationalism is hilarious stuff!

19

News Item7/22/09 11:43 AM
AMill  Find all comments by AMill
Mr. Dispy wrote:
As to your brother Amill's objection to 'flying Christians,' perhaps one of you can explain what is meant by:
1 Th. 4:16-17
The first 14 verses are simply good scriptural advice on eg godliness, holy and just living.

15-17 Refer to the resurrection and Christ's 2nd coming to judgment.

But in all seriousness Dispy; Why do you insist on this extraordinary supernatural interpretation viz "flying Christians" - "UNLESS" you combine it with the equally extraordinary millennial theory of Disp. PreMill?

What is to be achieved by the Lord in flying everybody concerned, both dead and living, up in the air?

Is it a spiritual event in PreMill theory? Do the living ones leave their mortal coils behind? Or do the dead ones get a remake of their previous flesh?

But if an entirely spiritual event will it be "flying" as spiritual beings, therefore not quite so extraordinary in that context?

From my perspective I think these verses simply put into human perception terms, an allusion to the resurrection of the elect when Christ returns to judge. Something at this moment our poor little brains cannot fully comprehend, nor do they need to.

18

News Item7/21/09 5:50 PM
Mr. Dispy  Find all comments by Mr. Dispy
djc49 wrote:
That's patent nonsense.
Paul, if you remember, also argued that there would be a Great "falling away" (apostasy) before the 2nd Advent of Christ.
Obviously there's no apostasy happening these days.

The Thessalonians did not have the Revelation of Jesus Christ when Paul wrote to them, but they did have Paul, who had been caught up to the third heaven, and had been taught personally by the Lord, and was used of the Holy Spirit to write nearly half the books of the New Testament. Was that not sufficient training for him to have taught them how to interpret prophecy?

As to your brother Amill's objection to 'flying Christians,' perhaps one of you can explain what is meant by:

1 Th. 4:16-17
"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

Let's say the amill position concerning the advent and final judgment were correct. How do you interpret this passage? If figurative, then are the earlier verses in that chapter figurative as well?

17

News Item7/21/09 4:50 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
AMill wrote:
The book of Revelation uses figurative language. The millennium is figurative for now. The plan of God ceases when Christ returns and does Judgment day. Then eternal heaven or hell as the case may be. Simple eh!
This is the Promise!
What does "figurative for now" mean? And I'm sure exception could be made if being raptured would be offensive to you. Perhaps you can get special permission to stay behind?
16
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