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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  7/22/2014
THURSDAY, JUL 9, 2009  |  22 comments
Episcopal Bishop calls individual salvation 'heresy,' 'idolatry'
Episcopal Presiding Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori says it's "heresy" to believe that an individual can be saved through a sinner's prayer of repentance.

In her opening address to the church's General Conference in California, Jefferts Schori called that "the great Western heresy: that we can be saved as individuals, that any of us alone can be in right relationship with God."


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COMMENTS | show all | add new  
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· Page 1 ·  Found: 22 user comment(s)
News Item7/11/09 4:28 PM
Faithful Remnant | Basin and Range Country  Find all comments by Faithful Remnant
Hey there, John-UK and NY Mike. I was pondering on this more last night and a passage in Acts came to mind, where Ananias tells Saul to "arise and be baptized and wash away thy sins, calling on His name."(Acts 22:16). Here we have an example in the writings of the Apostles of a possible "prayer" to God for washing away of sins, however, I would also point out the importance of repentance and believing the Gospel...and baptism as well. Jesus taught all of this(calling, repentance, belief, baptism, "repent and believe the Gospel, He who believes and is baptized.." etc) and the Apostles repeated the same(Acts 2:38, 16:31, 22:16). I think it's important for all of this in the Christian life...repentance, calling upon God in times of need(especially when we fail), and faith alone in the once-for-all perfectly meritorious and finished work of Jesus Christ.

Yes, SteveR, that is true. Some say to be saved, do this or that, but I think we need the whole works(faith, repentance, confession, prayer)..not just a prayer, not just baptism or agreement with the "correct" creed.

22

News Item7/11/09 12:43 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
One23 wrote:
How come you exclude God from the publican's actions, Mike???
Is it to promote salvation by works???
How sad that your questions prove my point.

When you pray, is God excluded? If so, it would be interesting to know if you see prayer as merely making noise with the tongue, or if you see it as talking with God. The publican knew the difference. And so should you. God excluded indeed.
21

News Item7/11/09 12:28 PM
SteveR | Upper Midwest  Find all comments by SteveR
Not to defend her views, but dont many 'conservative' denominations here place conditions on "REAL" justification too? Doesnt the concept of limited atonement require election? Do not some others require Baptism? and yet others require defense of the israeli state and/or pre mill eschatology?
20

News Item7/11/09 11:46 AM
One23  Find all comments by One23
Mike wrote:
If we called the publican's vocalization a "sinner's prayer," that might be grounds for evidence that he was saved by self to some of our brethren.
How come you exclude God from the publican's actions, Mike???
Is it to promote salvation by works???
19

News Item7/11/09 10:04 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
John UK wrote:
Absolutely FR.
I don't see anyone giving an altar call in the Temple, rather the publican was called by God, enlightened by the Spirit, saw the value in the blood atonement (hilaskomai - be merciful, propitious), and repented, was remorseful, trusting only in God's provision not himself, verbalised his thoughts with his tongue faculty, which were emanating from his renewed heart faculty, and........
Went home JUSTIFIED
If we called the publican's vocalization a "sinner's prayer," that might be grounds for evidence that he was saved by self to some of our brethren. Perhaps they just don't like the idea of a sinner praying for mercy. But whether we like it or not, the publican prayed a sinner's prayer.
18

News Item7/11/09 4:02 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Faithful Remnant wrote:
Thank you, John for the Luke reference. This verse is the one the altar call advocates use. My response: If the sinner prayer idea is what Jesus meant, why don't any of the Apostles teach it? The people asked the Apostles what must they do....nothing about "Repeat after me or make a prayer of your own...."(See Acts 2:37,38 & Acts 16:31).
Absolutely FR.

I don't see anyone giving an altar call in the Temple, rather the publican was called by God, enlightened by the Spirit, saw the value in the blood atonement (hilaskomai - be merciful, propitious), and repented, was remorseful, trusting only in God's provision not himself, verbalised his thoughts with his tongue faculty, which were emanating from his renewed heart faculty, and........

Went home JUSTIFIED

17

News Item7/10/09 8:46 PM
Faithful Remnant  Find all comments by Faithful Remnant
Thank you, John for the Luke reference. This verse is the one the altar call advocates use. My response: If the sinner prayer idea is what Jesus meant, why don't any of the Apostles teach it? The people asked the Apostles what must they do....nothing about "Repeat after me or make a prayer of your own...."(See Acts 2:37,38 & Acts 16:31).
16

News Item7/10/09 7:45 PM
Biblicist  Find all comments by Biblicist
John UK wrote:
Like this:
Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
Isaiah 55:6-7 KJV
Yeah Baby. The sinner is asked to do alot of things, including prayer.

15

News Item7/10/09 7:41 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Biblicist wrote:
And what about:
"Romans 10:13
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
How do some people suppose sinners get saved?
Like this:

Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
Isaiah 55:6-7 KJV

14

News Item7/10/09 7:35 PM
Biblicist  Find all comments by Biblicist
And what about:

"Romans 10:13
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

How do some people suppose sinners get saved?

13

News Item7/10/09 7:33 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Faithful Remnant wrote:
She has plenty of biblical support, John. Not one record in the Bible says people pray their way into heaven.....
Except this one:

And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
Luke 18:13-14 KJV

Apart from that, FR, I agree about the altar call evangelism and pseudo gospel preaching.

12

News Item7/10/09 6:56 PM
Faithful Remnant  Find all comments by Faithful Remnant
She has plenty of biblical support, John. Not one record in the Bible says people pray their way into heaven or pray Jesus into themselves. It is by faith in the testimony of Jesus' work...his death, burial and resurrection for your justification. Faith alone, by grace alone because of Christ alone. Do you believe this? A return to biblical orthodoxy is needed and she is one step closer, but has a long way to go(including stepping down from the pulpit). Altar call evangelism and the pentecostal-charismatic movement should be avoided and both seem to go hand-in-hand very often.
11

News Item7/10/09 2:22 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
one note, John,
Webster's Dictionary (1913) wrote:
Repentance /Re·pent´ance/ (rē̇·pĕnt´ans), n. [F. repentance.] The act of repenting, or the state of being penitent; sorrow for what one has done or omitted to do; especially, contrition for sin. Chaucer.
Godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation. 2. Cor. vii. 20.
Repentance is a change of mind, or a conversion from sin to God. Hammond.
Repentance is the relinquishment of any practice from the conviction that it has offended God. Sorrow, fear, and anxiety are properly not parts, but adjuncts, of repentance; yet they are too closely connected with it to be easily separated. Rambler.
Doctrinal Compromise is Condemned

Thank you Hidemi! And thank God when I am correct.

10

News Item7/10/09 5:26 AM
John Yurich USA | USA  Find all comments by John Yurich USA
What an insane and psychotic dame Schori is for believing the lie of Satan that salvation is not by praying to Jesus and asking Him to become ones Savior but is imparted by Baptism and the Sacraments. Schori has no biblical basis to be a Bishop let alone a Priest in the Episcopal Church because the Bible does not grant permission for women to be ordained to the clergy. What is the matter with churches that ordain women to the clergy? Are they incapable of reading in the Bible that women are not permitted to be ordained to the clergy?
9

News Item7/9/09 8:35 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
"Episcopal Presiding Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori says it's "heresy" to believe that an individual can be saved through a sinner's prayer of repentance."

We can only be saved by God. Prayer is talking with God. When one expresses faith in Jesus Christ, as per Eph 2:8, by grace are ye saved through faith, one is talking with God. Who is the expressor talking to when this faith through which one is saved is expressed? Prayer isn't beads, repetition, mouthing someone else's words, etc. It's talking to God, personally. So the bishop, not the husband of one wife, doesn't know what she's talking about. And being the head of a heretical church, she wouldn't know heresy if it jumped up and bit her on her acid tongue.

8

News Item7/9/09 7:48 PM
sally | midwest  Find all comments by sally
It seems to me she is really striking out at evangelicals and fundamentalists for being "unenlightened" in their doctrines....what extreme arrogance. I am thankful I am no longer a member of the episcopal church.
7

News Item7/9/09 7:34 PM
Faithful Remnant  Find all comments by Faithful Remnant
Article: "it's "heresy" to believe that an individual can be saved through a sinner's prayer of repentance."

In a way she's right and based on scriptural testimony(actually scriptural silence on sinner's prayer salvation) I am obliged to agree. The Apostles did not conduct sinners prayers and altar calls to save people. To judge someone as saved or not based on a prayer is not according to the Bible.

6

News Item7/9/09 7:15 PM
Max | London  Find all comments by Max
'Bishop Schori'...

Talking about heresies?

Gay Bishops, women bishops, women priests, same sex marriage, etc.

That woman needs to repent, humble herself and read the bible to discover how to be a true woman of God.

5

News Item7/9/09 6:28 PM
Frank Dombrosky | Texas  Find all comments by Frank Dombrosky
Liar.
4

News Item7/9/09 3:07 PM
Hidemi Williges | san francisco, ca  Contact via emailFind all comments by Hidemi  Williges
Jim Lincoln wrote:
Actually there are three heresies in the article, that repentance is not individual, support for queer marriages, and one that isn't mentioned at all, it is a heresy for a woman to be a leader in a church. Three strikes and this Episcopal Church is out! Note, Marks of the True Believer
Jim,
Good points.
3
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