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Breaking News Home | All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | SA News
FRONT PAGE  |  8/27/2015
FRIDAY, AUG 15, 2008  |  152 comments
Chronological Bible sparks debate
Bob Sanford wanted to create a Bible that would bring order and clarity to the text. Instead, he's waded right into one of the great debates of biblical scholarship.

The Chronological Study Bible will be released this fall in the midst of a Bible-publishing boom in the United States. In an industry that now as much to do with profits as with prophets, Sanford expects his new edition to have wide appeal.

"(Our challenge) is to take the scholarship and make it enjoyable to a readership that enjoys history," said Sanford, who oversees the Bible division for the giant Christian publisher, Thomas Nelson. ...


CLICK HERE to Read Entire Article
www.usatoday.com

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· Page 1 ·  Found: 152 user comment(s)
News Item10/8/08 9:03 PM
Elkin M. Kaufman | Walker, La.  Protected NameFind all comments by Elkin M. Kaufman
There is a KJV Chronological Bible available under the title THE REESE CHRONOLOGICAL BIBLE. It is available through radiomissions.org at the Radio Bible and Book Room.
152

News Item10/8/08 1:57 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Actually, what I should have pointed out many messages ago, there is a chronological NIV version of the Bible out there, q.v., NIV Narrated Bible (Chronological), The, I know this will not be of any interest to the KJVO folks, but it would make for much more pleasant reading than many other versions of this type of Bible. For those interested, there are at least eight articles on this topic and this one addresses some of the questions about the NIV. The Conflict Over Different Bible Versions–Part Seven.

Again, I know the KJVO folks would have little interest in the above, and I think I would find a Bible (Old Testament) laid out the way the Jews had it at least could be interesting.

151

News Item9/7/08 3:56 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
DJC49, thanks for the kind words, as James White points out in the excellent Wikipedia comment on the KJVO, King James Only movement, not all KJVO members are the same,(by the way, Daniel you really do need to read the article, Comparing Bible Translations, the two most accurate translations of the Bible, NASB #1 --or #2). But anyway, DJC49, even though I've had a course in the History of the Bible, the three papers, The Preface to the King James Version And the King James Only Position, Erasmus and the Textus Receptus, and The Preservation of Scripture--all by Dr. W.W. Combs, were not only an excellent refresher course, q.v., How We Got Our Bible, but I think added some excellent new material. So, I want to thank Daniel, Engineer, and others to get me to dig around in the topic of the KJVO.
150

News Item9/6/08 6:22 PM
DJC49 | Florida  Contact via emailFind all comments by DJC49
Jim Lincoln wrote:
The Preservation of Scripture.
Thank YOU, Jim Lincoln, for that link above to THE PRESERVATION OF SCRIPTURE by William W. Combs.

It was well worth the read!

I could only wish that our KJV-Only boys would take the time to carefully and considerately read the entire 42 page pdf. Somewhere within the essay, it makes the EXACT point that I tried to make with my +95% statement ... only I foolishly attempted to do it in 1 paragraph. It states it MUST better. Naturally.

149

News Item9/6/08 5:41 PM
Daniel Lee Ford | Spring Arbor, Mich.  Find all comments by Daniel Lee Ford
Jim Lincoln wrote:
80 or 90% of the KJV is not good

Dr. Combs, has answered the question
"the original text (words) can be ascertained."

Wow! so, will you mail me Combs' copy of the wordS of God please? Or at least let us know what bookstore to buy it in?
....
As you wish to convince me to get rid of my Authorised Bible.

Since Jim just told us that the Webster's Bible is good, and it has the same base Greek as the Authorised Bible, AND Jim still refuses to tell us which year NASB he recommends
Double Jeopardy:which NASB? showing
95NAS has 7000 fewer words than 77NAS.
The ever changing "literal" NASB
... Jim doesn't HAVE a Bible anywhere.

The MASSSIVE difference between Webster's,and anNASB or tniv OR from the latest Critical text(any year!) makes it strange to hear them being touted in the same post as if they're equal.

Webster felt the KJV was, for the most part,correct

"things that are different are not the same." 8/30/08 4:18 pm
8,000 Differences - see Moorman

148

News Item9/6/08 4:45 PM
Ann | Northwest  Find all comments by Ann
147

News Item9/6/08 2:34 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Ah, Daniel, Dr. Combs, has answered the question of preservation!
Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary wrote:
While the Bible clearly teaches the ultimate indestructibility of the verbal revelation of God (Matt 24:35; 1 Pet 1:25), it does not tell how and where the written manuscript lineage of that Word is preserved. We believe that God has providentially preserved His word in the many manuscripts, fragments, versions, translations, and copies of the Scriptures that are available, and that by diligent study, comparison, and correlation, the original text (words) can be ascertained.
from, The Preservation of Scripture. This way people can figure out what to thing of the excellent scholarship of Dr. Combs. B.B. Warfield agrees with him. I would suggest people who want the Bible in their own native English tongue to get, NAS MacArthur Study Bible, or any other site for that matter, just to have something that doesn't have all the errors of the KJV, pointed out years ago, Webster's Revision of the KJV (1833).
146

News Item9/5/08 8:35 PM
Daniel Lee Ford | Spring Arbor, Mich.  Find all comments by Daniel Lee Ford
Jim Lincoln wrote:
the excellent article by Dr. Combs, Erasmus and the Textus Receptus by William W. Combs.
that IS the best link on the subject from you
here is a review of Combs from a scholar in the Authorised Bible/Providential Preservation camp :
The Preservation of Scripture Combs -Strouse review
"Comb’s position appeals to the mind of the scholars. Christ’s position appeals to the heart of believers who hear the words of our Savior "

Combs claims
""Because Codex 1r was missing its last page and thus the last six verses of Revelation (22:16–21), Erasmus retranslated these verses from the Latin Vulgate"
Textual scholar Herman C. Hoskier argued that Erasmus did not do this. Instead, he suggests that Erasmus used other Greek manuscripts such as 2049 (which Hoskier calls 141), and the evidence seems to support this position
H. C. Hoskier, Concerning the Text of the Apocalypse, vol. 2 (London: Bernard Quaritch, Ltd., 1929), 644
"book of life" &the last 6 verses of Revelation 22
PSALM 12:7 TEACHES PRESERVATION of Scripture-Strouse

145

News Item9/5/08 7:13 PM
oneproved  Find all comments by oneproved
DJC49 thanks your post 8/28/08 6:01 PM

I admire your strong brotherly christian faith. I note the first greek NT translation was the ground work for a European bible revival unseen since and an astounding number coming to faith in Christ and true reformation doctrine-a particular text which was God's plan. A text tried and proved but abandoned by the likes of watchtower Society-they must have had a good reason, eh? (I Timothy 3: 16 etc.)

Below gives confidence in the text used by all the reformers/English Martyrs post Luther-God makes no mistakes so it is strange that new bibles abandon the TR altogether don't you think? Ah, well- Every blessing, brother.

'Martin Luther used the recent 1516 Greek edition of Erasmus, a text which was later called textus receptus. The Luther German New Testament translation was first published in September of 1522. The translation of the Old Testament followed, yielding an entire German language Bible in 1534.

Luther is also know to have befriended William Tyndale, and given him safe haven and assistance in using the same 1516 Erasmus Greek-Latin Parallel New Testament that had been the source text for his German New Testament of 1522, as the trustworthy source text for Tyndale’s English New Testament of 1525-26.'

144

News Item9/5/08 2:05 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
James White pointed something out, which should be noted on the various debates, and I would also say arguments here. The KJV supporters can be divided into 5 groups, though sometimes they overlap.
James White wrote:
"I Like the KJV Best" This division is represented by individuals who simply prefer the KJV over other translations....
"The Textual Argument" - Individuals here believe the KJV's Hebrew and Greek textual basis are the most accurate. These conclude that the KJV is based on better manuscripts....
"Received Text Only" - Here, the traditional Hebrew and Greek texts are believed to be supernaturally preserved....
"The Inspired KJV Group" - Individuals in this group believe that the KJV itself was supernaturally inspired....
"The KJV As New Revelation" - This group of individuals would believe that the KJV is a "new revelation" from God,...
from King James
Only movement
(excellent for a Wikipedia article)

The first group we can safely ignore, even though we can have some good discussions with them, the second group, we can point out the excellent article by Dr. Combs, Erasmus and the Textus Receptus by William W. Combs.

143

News Item9/4/08 3:48 PM
A Democratic Conservative  Find all comments by A Democratic Conservative
Hmmm.

One would think that the "a" in "murraya" would stand for "atheists" like in Madeline MURRAY O'Hara !

Hmmm.

The Jezebel that took Our U.S. Bible-Based prayers out of Our Public Schools back in the early 1960s--

Not to mention Our U.S. Authorized "King James" Bibles TOO !

*OH, FORGIVE ME, BUT I ALSO FORGOT TO MENTION MADELINE MURRAY O'HARA'S / JEZEBEL'S "AHABS" WHO POST ON THIS SERMONAUDIO WEBSITE LIKE "jim lincoln", "djc49", "rogerant", etc.

#1.Old Holiness Methodist Revivalist BOB JONES SR. renounced the RSV, ASV, ETC.; and used The AUTHORIZED "KING JAMES" BIBLE until the day he died !

#2.Dr. Henry Morris ALSO renounced the ASV-NASV, NIV & NKJB, ETC.; and ALSO used The AUTHORIZED "KING JAMES" BIBLE until the day he died:

"I believe therefore, after studying, teaching, and loving the Bible for over 55 years, that Christians...need to HANG ON TO their OLD King James Bibles as LONG AS THEY LIVE...

God has uniquely blessed IT in the history of England and America, in the great revivals...and in the personal lives of Believers MORE than He has the REST of the versions PUT TOGETHER...

The King James Bible is the MOST Beautiful, the MOST Powerful, and (I STRONGLY BELIEVE) the MOST RELIABLE of ANY that we have OR EVER WILL HAVE, until CHRIST RETURNS."

142

News Item9/4/08 2:38 PM
DJC49 | Florida  Contact via emailFind all comments by DJC49
In response to DJC49 posting:
"Thank you for your (cough) heartfelt prayers, preacherman."

preacherjond. wrote:
As I said...

And you just keep giving more and more evidence.

Hey! Preacherman!
I thought you were D O N E. (?)

I could have sworn that you posted:
"No more comments I'M DONE here."
in your post of 9/3/08 10:13 PM!!!

But here you are AGAIN ... giving comment. Just like you said you WOULD NOT DO!

Matter of fact, prior to that (in your post of 9/3/08 8:06 PM), you stated that you were "done with the ignoranc[e]"

Matter of fact, even prior to THAT (in your post of 9/2/08 1:08 PM), you said: "GOOD BYE and good day."

In summation ...
THAT'S how sincere you are, preacherjman.
And THAT'S why I didn't buy for ONE second that you'd be praying for me. Your so-called prayers were just a ploy for you to attain to the "higher moral ground."

I read you like a book. And the title of YOUR book could very well be: "The Picture of Dorian Gray" ... all nice and holy on the outside, but ...

Now get back in your prayer closet and do some GENUINE praying about keeping your word!!!

141

News Item9/4/08 2:36 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
What this about the pagan Saxons? You will find troubles with interpreting "Angel of the Lord" in Defects of the King James Version, among numerous others.
the above wrote:
"Our translators say, in their noble preface, that they have not been studious of an 'identity of phrasing ;' that is to say, they acknowledge that they have not been careful to render a Hebrew or Greek word by the same English phrase in the different places where the Hebrew or Greek word occurs...."
Something the ASV revisers did take into account. I hope no one is spouting the Armstrongian British Israelism (white supremest) nonsense that the KJV is some superior to even the Textus Receptus? In other words, the KJV stands alone? The Preface to the King James Version And the King James Only Position, the translators rejected this idea and Dr. Combs rightly labels it heresy, as much as British Israelism is.
140

News Item9/4/08 1:39 PM
preacherjond.  Find all comments by preacherjond.
DJC49 wrote:
Thank you for your (cough) heartfelt prayers, preacherman.
As I said...

And you just keep giving more and more evidence.

139

News Item9/4/08 12:38 PM
ENGINEER | USA  Find all comments by ENGINEER
DJC49 wrote:
Chronological Bible sparks debate
8/26/08 1:39 PM
"The INDIVIDUAL wordS are NOT preserved and God never made such a promise to begin with!
But I'll go one step further in saying .... We have probably +95% of the original in our Bible versions.

Perhaps you meant to say

I deleted most of the mindless nonsense, but had to leave some so as to have SOMETHING to respond to.

preacherjond, just might mean
that he
IS
praying for you!

Let me ask you something,Mr."5% of the Bible is missing"
Is there something WRONG with us praying for you?

prayer doesn't always mean
"bless your heart"
sometimes we all need to just take it to the prayer closet.

uh-oh!

you might end up finding that other 5%
of the Bible for which you claim you've been looking.

Anyhow, I do appreciate your posts, as those reading them are buffered against the take that those of us who call the English speaking church to use the Authorised Bible can't be labelled as Ruckmanites, when sarcatic invective from the 'scholarship only' school at least equals Dr. Ruckman.(at least at times..and Dr. Ruckman isn't always in full sneer mode, either.)

Anyhow..
Keep it up.

You are a fine example of
the '95% true' school...

138

News Item9/4/08 10:58 AM
DJC49 | Florida  Contact via emailFind all comments by DJC49
preacherjond. wrote:
As I said I'm done with the ignorance. YOU KNOW NOT THE SCRIPTURE, nor do you want to know it, only to hold to YOUR RELIGION which IS VOID OF THE SPIRIT.
Is that so?!
Perhaps you meant to say that my eschatological beliefs are somewhat different than yours.

preacherjond. wrote:
No more comments I'm done here.

I pray that God will open your blind eyes and ears, and show you the truth of His Word, and the falsehood of the dotrines of men your caught up in. In Jesus, name Amen.

Thank you for your (cough) heartfelt prayers, preacherman.

But I've been posting long enough on these boards to know that when someone has absolutely no good refutation of what has been argued against them, SOME resort to the "christian trump card" of supposedly saying prayers for their antagonist -- because said antagonist is presumably "blind to the truth." This prayer tactic thereby ends any further discussion and takes the holier-than-thou prayer-maker off the hook as far as actually THINKING about what's being discussed.

It's fairly typical.
And it's also Standard Operating Procedure for the self-righteous, for the shallow, and for those who can't cope with their own belief systems being tested and challenged.

137

News Item9/4/08 10:05 AM
ENGINEER | USA  Find all comments by ENGINEER
And so it was SAXON who taught math to the ranks of the auxiliary detachment of ROMAN soldiers stationed in and around Jerusalem/Judea. Aye?

And Herod Agrippa I (an Edomite king, NOT a Roman magistrate & having NO charge over Roman soldiers) kowtowed to this SAXON math to build bridges and SAXON math validated the worshippers of a pagan ROMAN festival? Interesting!

Now, if you'd be so kind, would you provide the documentation for such an assertion? Show some sort of PROOF that there were oodles and oodles of SAXON math books in Jerusalem/Judea at the time of 44 A.D.

Or is it that you just enjoy "making stuff up" as you go along?

oh, wait sec.

my bad.

I missed what BTW means
and also,
I see that
British Traditional Witchcraft
reads Easter as both pagan/christian
concepts.
So reading
Between The Words
In the
Books That Work to support the
reading of Easter as a good translation,
I've got to admit that thinking Saxon
math related to Saxon at the time of the Romans was bit silly.

I'm not Born to Win, obviously,
and if you want to laugh at my
mistake then
Be That Way

GOTTA GET BTW meaning "back to work"

P.S.
my Gospel calendar notes Easter March 23 and April 27th this year...
so Passover came before Easter this year
!

136

News Item9/4/08 8:56 AM
DJC49 | Florida  Contact via emailFind all comments by DJC49
DLF
Thank you for your enlightening post of 9/4/08 7:01 AM.
However, it still doesn't answer the question: "Who exactly was doing all the pagan 'Easter' celebrating IN JERUSALEM during Jewish Passover Week in 44 A.D.?"

There certainly wasn't enough of a Roman presence there so as to pressure Herod to hold off presenting Peter to the people [the Jews]. Besides, Roman soldiers were NOT under Herod's command. He had his own soldiers. His own guard had Peter in custody.
It just makes MUCH more sense to me that Herod would wait doing anything with Peter until the JEWISH Passover week was completed so as not to disturb THEIR holy days and observances.

Look at Acts 12:3. "And because he saw it pleased the JEWS," This tells me that Herod sought NOT to make waves with Jewish leadership, and bringing Peter before them during Passover Week would have disrupted their observances.

Do you really think that Herod was so concerned about any little pagan 'Easter' observances that MIGHT have been going on? Do you think that HE himself observed pagan 'Easter' feasts?

And for all my searching, I can NOT find any reference to the Romans celebrating Ishtar, Astarte, or Easter. They just weren't included within their Roman pantheon of gods, heroes, festivals or seasonal observances.

135

News Item9/4/08 7:01 AM
Daniel Lee Ford | Spring Arbor, Mich.  Find all comments by Daniel Lee Ford
Conquest Of Britain By Saxons Gibbon
Speculativly tracking 'Eostre' into ENGLISH, I made a true statement about Saxon mercenaries. BTW, Saxon math is excellent!

The timeline of this Etymology by EARLY introduction of easter worship into England,by Roman conquest(Saxon mercenaries),is what I meant to imply in my BTW line. see Roman Britain by Conybeare, pg 98-108
[confusing some!]

Modern English pagans who celebrate Easter at paschal time still understand the word Easter to refer to this time period,AND pagan rites.

pagans use Easter, too.
cf.Bede using the word "Easter" to designate this time of month, which shows Christian meaning early,too.

Thus, my Luther Bible is correct too, in Acts 12:4 {Ostern}
[Luther's is more like Tyndale,with Ostern, Osterlamm, Osterfest, Fest]
using passover - das Passa in Heb11.28

BTW, beside the modern Greek I noted,Spanish Feliz Pascuas means Happy Easter!

Easter still denotes both pagan & Christian practices,evoking eggs, bunnies, crosses, resurrection, church services.A catch-all term.

U.S.Christian troops (covertly) celebrate Easter in Saudia Arabia, a capital crime.

134

News Item9/3/08 10:13 PM
preacherjond.  Find all comments by preacherjond.
DJC49 wrote:
Millennial Madness
As I said I'm done with the ignorance. You know not the Scripture, nor do you want to know it, only to hold to your religion which is void of the Spirit.

No more comments I'm done here.

I pray that God will open your blind eyes and ears, and show you the truth of His Word, and the falsehood of the dotrines of men your caught up in. In Jesus, name Amen.

133
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