More even than William Shakespeare, the KJV sculpted the English language and thus the way anyone who uses English thinks. It is also the language's largest source ever assembled of metaphors, clichés and plots waiting to be cribbed. You cannot read a 19th-century Canadian parliamentary debate or replay a stump speech by any 20th-century U.S. presidential candidate or go through movie channels on your TV set tonight without running into words, phrases, allusions and narrative turns that are straight from the scriptures. The bible-belting in Pulp Fiction and the constant cinematic threats of Armageddon come from the same source....
Ta for your comments, and I apologise for not returning. I have been without since the end of September.
This is a complex subject n'est pas? I have had a quick look through the posts, and this one by DLF I thought to be most interesting. (Engineer and I have had some barnies on this thread some time ago, but I've always had a respect for his position.
DLF posted:
reading thru a paper ml & DJC49 recommended about the "Blood of Christ" I found this "The idea that Jesus would have been tainted by sin except He was virgin-born has no basis in Scripture. " hmm? This is in a section about how all Baptists are heretics,(M R DeHaan, Waite,etc.) While McGeown thinks Paisley, Cairns to be `only' antichrists?
(fuzzy logic just pointed out in another thread that anyone of different mind is a heretic to you, till you change your mind).
The Satanic-Vaticanist "Jesuits" & their "Jesuitics" just HATE it when one REPEATS The TRUTH Perpetually !
And that is what I will, by the Grace of Almighty GOD, do:
REPEAT the TRUTH Perpetually !
Would to Almighty GOD that His True Saints Perpetually "Xeroxed" His Perserved WORD in the English Language (aka The KJV-Bible) to ALL The English Speaking Peoples of The World. . .
Till Kingdom Come--That is, Christ Jesus' Holy Kingdom Come !
But First must Come The Holy, Blessed & Authorized Biblical Rapture of His True Church (and it's NOT The Satanic-Vaticanist Roman "Catholic" Cult [Roman Catholicism] either) !
Now for The Record, I shall "Xerox" The Historic Truth & Facts yet ONCE MORE:
The Authorized "King James" Version of The Holy Bible is THE ONLY TRUE English Bible to HAVE & USE.
To quibble over how 1611 spelling is different from 1769 spelling; is different from 1840 spelling; is different from 1960 spelling; is different from 2008 spelling: is NOT The Bone of Contention with The Authorized "King James" English Bible ONLY Advocates.
The Bone of Contention is over Manuscriptural AUTHORITY--especially New Testament GREEK Manuscriptural Authority !
That's the case with my Bone of Contention with The Anti-KJV-ONLY Compromisers, Apostates, "djc49"...
Again: The HISTORIC TRUTH & FACT Still Stands: The Authorized "King James" Version of The Holy Bible is THE ONLY TRUE English Bible to HAVE & USE, PERIOD !
To quibble over how 1611 spelling is different from 1769 spelling; is different from 1840 spelling; is different from 1960 spelling; is different from 2008 spelling: is NOT The Bone of Contention with The Authorized "King James" English Bible ONLY Advocates.
The Bone of Contention is over Manuscriptural AUTHORITY--especially NT GREEK Manuscriptural Authority !
That's the case with my Bone of Contention with The Anti-KJV-ONLY Compromisers, Apostates "Modern-Version-Updaters" & Ecumenists: as well as The Satanic-Vaticanist "Jesuitic" Pro-NIV-NASB-NKJB-"Alexandrian-Manuscript-CULTISTS" like "jim lincoln" & his ilk !
They're Heretics in DISGUISE; posing themselves as defenders of the Authorized Holy Scriptures.
Yes, The EXACT (c)1611 KJV DID include the Apocrypha--
But so DID the myriad of OTHER Bibles during The ROMAN CATHOLIC REFORMATION !
But these OTHER NT Translations were ALL Based on The Same ANCIENT GREEK NT Manuscripts--
THE BYZANTINE ERASMIAN-TEXTUS-RECEPTUS NEW TESTAMENT GREEK FAMILY OF MANUSCRIPTS !
NOT THE CORRUPT "ANCIENT" ALEXANDRIAN-ARIAN HERETICAL "JESUIT" PUSHED "NT GREEK" MANUSCRIPTS !
Anna: Luke 1 30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favor with God. MHCC: 26-38 We have here an account of the mother of our Lord; though we are not to pray to her, yet we ought to praise God for her. Christ must be born miraculously. The angel's address means only, Hail, thou that art the especially chosen and favoured of the Most High, to attain the honour Jewish mothers have so long desired. This wondrous salutation and appearance troubled Mary. The angel then assured her that she had found favour with God, and would become the mother of a son whose name she should call Jesus, the Son of the Highest, one in a nature and perfection with the Lord God....Mary's reply to the angel was the language of faith and humble admiration, and she asked no sign for the confirming her faith. Without controversy, great was the mystery of godliness, God manifest in the flesh... Christ's human nature must be produced so, as it was fit that should be which was to be taken into union with the Divine nature. And we must, as Mary here, guide our desires by the word of God...let us remember that with God nothing is impossible;
Mary, was a sinner, like everyone else, Hail Mary?
Thanks for the links about the lineage of Mary DC, I will look into them.
A point here is, original sin comes into question really...we are supposed according to Paul, ( not Jesus however, at least I dont recall him mentioning original sin, correct me otherwise) have indeed inherited a sinful nature.
However, it is possible Mary never sinned but of course this is what RCC doctrine teaches...all supposition.
I believe and agree also that God was perfectly able to protect the Davidic lineage for this specific purpose. The Messiah would be born from the "seed of David" Human seed therefore.
DJC49 wrote: *ml* ... I haven't battled you in the least. Probably because you AREN'T a KJVO Fundy! Matter of fact, by picking up the banner concerning that outstanding link you offered ("Fundamentalists and the "Incorruptible" Blood of Christ ") I've done battle FOR you ... and the truth.
I am sorry DJC49, I misunderstood you. I also thank you for doing battle for me and the truth. God bless you.
who wrote: I'm battling the KJVO Fundies the best I can by the grace of God, of course. I guarantee you that every last one of them are freewill Arminian, pre-Mill Dispies. That does NOT necessarily mean that they aren't "in Christ," it just means they're WRONG!
ml wrote: Not all KJVO are fundies, freewill arminians, pre-mill dispies. Some of us are from the reformed camp.
And then ...
Komentarz wrote: Ditto!!!
You two prove my point beautifully!
*ml* ... I haven't battled you in the least. Probably because you AREN'T a KJVO Fundy! Matter of fact, by picking up the banner concerning that outstanding link you offered ("Fundamentalists and the 'Incorruptible' Blood of Christ") I've done battle FOR you ... and the truth.
and *Komentarz* ... up to this point, you and I have had a very civil, amicable discussion and debate concerning the Human Nature of Christ. I never once considered it a "battle" at all. Therefore, you mustn't be a KJVO Fundy! Q.E.D.
But there are about 4 or 5 KJVO Fundy pre-Mill freewill Arminian Dispies who I BATTLE with on an ongoing basis. They shall remain nameless. But ya'll KNOW who they are! JD/Casob has left us, but his 4+ "children" have sprouted!
DJC49 wrote: Jim Lincoln - Thanks for the encouragement. I'm battling the KJVO Fundies the best I can by the grace of God, of course. I guarantee you that every last one of them are freewill Arminian, pre-Mill Dispies.
Not all KJVO are fundies, freewill arminians, pre-mill dispies. Some of us are from the reformed camp.
· Your "categories" are conflated. You now try to mix Soteriology with Christology. Granted, there is relationship between the two, but there are distinctions which must be maintained.
· You MUST come to the realization that the Messianic prophesies of Scripture (which are nothing less than DECREES of God Himself) MUST be fulfilled. When GOD proclaims that the Messiah would be of "her seed," of the "seed of Abraham," of the "seed of David" according to the flesh, then that's EXACTLY HOW it HAD to come about. God directly tied, connected, and linked His Only Begotten Son INTO the Adamic race. Not merely legally; not merely tribally, nationally, religiously, linguistically, nor culturally, but ACTUALLY via direct-line descent -- GENETICALLY -- from Adam, through Abraham, David, and Mary to THE CHRIST.
God's Plan, not mine.
· I've exhausted all lines of reasoning concerning this subject with you. I think we're at an impasse.
_____
Jim Lincoln - Thanks for the encouragement. I'm battling the KJVO Fundies the best I can by the grace of God, of course. I guarantee you that every last one of them are freewill Arminian, pre-Mill Dispies. That does NOT necessarily mean that they aren't "in Christ," it just means they're WRONG!
Jim Lincoln wrote: Romans 5 12 Therefore, as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin; and so death passed unto all men, for that all sinned:— Not Mary!
Hey Jim Are you teaching here that all women are sinless....???
DJC49, H. Morris, support of a Gnostic type Jesus, and A Response to a Brother in Christ--Dr. Morris' "Defense" of the King James Bible Reviewed, does not reflect will rational approaches to Christian questions, his organization should reject some his illogical positions on these two topics ( I hope there aren't more) because it doesn't help his organization's support of Genesis, etc. You are doing an excellent job of pointing out this problem of Dr. Morris.
Romans 5 12 Therefore, as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin; and so death passed unto all men, for that all sinned:— Not Mary!
Henry Morris's further assertion that Mary had all sorts of genetic defects and mutations which would cause The Christ to be physically and/or mentally deformed is more conjectural nonsense. Now, does anyone here think that God didn't have His eye on the lineage AND genetics of His promised Messiah from DAY ONE? And besides ... it wouldn't have mattered if Jesus had a hairlip (or whatever) anyway. His physical body wasn't the point. His SINLESSNESS was!
Is anyone here willing to claim that Jesus would have been an unacceptable sacrifice for sin if He, in His physical body, had ANY "defect" like a receding hairline or a crooked pinkie or a birth mark? And before you go on about Him having to be "without spot or blemish" I must remind you that this phrase refers to His having no inherent sin nor actual, committed sin. It has NOTHING to do with his physicality. Afterall, Christ was not an OT sheep or ram. That's merely the typology. An OT animal sacrifice was to be without physical defect to SYMBOLIZE the spiritual purity of the animal being sacrificed. Since animals are sinless, the ONLY way the typology was valid was to show OUTWARDLY that the animal was "pure."
Anyway ... If Jesus wasn't the perfect physical human specimen, I don't think it would have mattered.
DJC49 wrote: God can indeed create another humanity:
But now, is this other created-by-God humanity RELATED in any way to the ADAMIC RACE?
Yes it is - BOTH in the hands of one Creator God.
Brother you are related to me through our Father Adam. But how do you prove your spiritual relation to Christ for salvation? Through the flesh/egg of Mary? No!
If you are to validate salvation specifically through the bio-link to Mary-Adam, then that is of the first Adam.
Not spiritually to the second Adam Christ Jesus.
Does God save BECAUSE of the bio-link to Mary/Adam? No!
God saves His elect chosen before the foundation of the world. Eph 1:4/5.
The flesh of itself in this divine formula is not of primary concern, nor essential to salvation.
There is but one Potter. The flesh is just a bit of sinful clay.
Henry Morris's presupposition that there exists human genes which carry "the sin factor" is totally without Scriptural warrant -- or ANY kind of proof scientific or otherwise. Where did he ever get the notion and idea that the IMMATERIAL sin nature is somehow locked into MATERIAL DNA? Trying to be "scientific," Morris blindly leaps into the irrational and metaphysical stating that:
· all genes are carriers of sin · all of a man's physical body is saturated with sin · the sin nature is inherited through genetics
This is all preposterous nonsense and nothing less than spiritual alchemy. It has NO foundation in either Scripture nor science. Henry Morris is no better than those in today's atheistic scientific community who are "committed to finding the homosexual gene." The "homosexual gene" hunters say they haven't found it (nor any other sin gene) yet. Well, they'll NEVER find it because sin is NOT in the body; it's IN THE SOUL! And any assessment that doesn't factor in a choosing, willing, moral IMMATERIAL higher self into the equation is simply not working with all of the data and the assessment is going to be flawed. Terribly flawed.
And Henry Morris's "sin gene" theory is something less than pseudo-science; its bunkum.
Mike wrote: Acts 13:21-23 "God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:"
and his promise included,via the sacrificial system 1 Pe 1:19:"Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:"
all links below, and also the Owen quote, that I can't find point out that the Lord Jesus Christ was of the line of David thru Mary physically nurtured by Mary and (being firstborn of her). Ex.13:12,13:15,34:19, Num 3:12,13;18:15 so, by promise, the LORD's
"The LORD hath created a new thing in the earth, a woman shall compass a man" Jer31:22.
Jesus Christ, "a new" "flesh & blood" "thing" is connected by birth, law, tribe(Judah), nation, religion, language,etc. to Israel&Adam.
Daniel Lee Ford wrote: In either case, there could have been no direct transmission of physical, mental or spiritual characteristics (all of which, in every man and woman, are contaminated by sin) from Joseph or Mary or David or Adam. To say otherwise is to imply that the Lord Jesus Christ received a sin-nature by inheritance, and this would disqualify Him as Savior. But this wonderful miracle of creation in no way detracts from His full humanity. He experienced the same complete human life experienced by everyone,EXCEPT FOR SIN!" H M.Morris King of Creation
Acts 13:21-23 "And afterward they desired a king: and God gave unto them Saul the son of Cis, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, by the space of forty years.
And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.
Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:"
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Brian Edwards | 7/17/2008
