You cannot trust the bishops, fathers, etc. God's written Word is perfect without contradiction, pure and will never pass away.
Imprimatur - let it be printed.
1994, Archbishop Peter Gerity of Newark, N.J., who had approved "Christ Among Us", a CATECHISM by Anthony Wilhelm, was overruled and ordered withdrawn.
Council of Trent:Rules on Prohibited Books(which was approved by Pope Pius)
IV Since it is clear from experience that if the Sacred Books are permitted everywhere and without discrimination in the vernacular, there will by reason of the boldness of men arise therefrom more harm than good, the matter is in this respect left to the judgment of the bishop or inquisitor, who may with the advice of the pastor or confessor permit the reading of the Sacred Books translated into the vernacular by Catholic authors to those who they know will derive from such reading no harm but rather an increase of faith and piety, which permission they must have in writing. THOSE,HOWEVER, WHOM PRESUME TO READ OR POSSESS THEM WITHOUT SUCH PERMISSION MAY NOT RECEIVE ABSOLUTION FROM THEIR SINS TILL THEY HAVE HANDED THEM OVER TO THE ORDINARY..."
Lance, you must be a liberal roman because you are not a traditionalist.
What makes us continue with people like Lance? Yes, we pray. We plant the seed, water the seed, and fertilize the seed. Some of us would try to carry Lance and others like him on our back if we could when Christ does return. Some people do love this man. God says that He hates those who practice iniquity. He also says that those who justify the wicked are an abomination. Lance is in the Hands of an angry God. Lance if you do read The Bible, you know that God is angry with the wicked everyday. You continue to try to deceive people and I for one am so tired of you. Please find a RCC site where you can spew your antichrist message. Let us encourage each other in Christ as Christians really need uplifting and prayer to endure in the trials and tribulations of daily Christian life. You have zero tolerance for those who trust in the Bible. You don't read it because you cannot quote it. True Christians on SA make you sound so foolish everyday because they know THE WORD. Why must you continue?
TT- you bring up an excellent truth, let's all pray for those who are blinded by the RCC, this truly is a tragedy much too big to ignore. It demands our prayers, as many are following the pied piper right into the pit of hell. This is so sad and heartbreaking, we must never lose sight of the fact that precious souls are at stake here. Thank you TT for putting things into perspective.
I was also raised a Roman Catholic until God opened my eyes to my sin and, by His grace, I repented and believed Him. Many of my family members and my in-laws are still blinded, and have been blinded, by the lies they have been told, such as you're okay as long you're under the Roman umbrella. Many heavy burdens are laid on them to fulfill requirements, and they believe they must merit favor with God through works, praying rosaries, penance, suffering, the merits of the "saints," etc. They are being deceived straight into hell.
But, Michael Hranek, saved by grace, and all the others, all of this back and forth just proves the point: no amount of human "wisdom," work, or arguements can convince someone. It must be the movement of the Holy Spirit the opens blind eyes and convicts men of sin and draws them to the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation. Let's pray God continues working on Lance, maybe even through our words. But be sure, Lance, it will be the Holy Spirit that convicts and convinces, not us! I hope you can see how even now He is wooing you.
enough already wrote: lance, your comment, 'in catholicism it's called baptism of desire'...
enough already You bring up something that is hugely important, God does NOT accept us on the basis of our desire or good intentions but on the basis of the shed blood of Jesus Christ. I believe it is safe to say He cannot accept lost fallen sinful man on the basis of their desire nor their good intentions because being sinners we would have nothing merit the acceptance to offer to God. Abel offered a blood sacrifice, that of an innocent animal and was accepted whereas Cain attempted to worship with "some of the crops he had raised" and was rejected.
Right from the beginning in Genesis God shows us that He graciously accepts the blood of an innocent sacrifice on behalf of the descendant of Adam who would approach Him and utimately for those who trust in the shed blood of Christ the gift of eternal life.
Satan has lied to Catholic people and so many others that their good intentions will somehow merit them favor with God and has blinded them to the blood Jesus willing shed for them, especially Catholic people who never seem to get it that His blood is good enough for them, so good that they do not need anything or anyone else.
lance, your comment, 'in catholicism it's called baptism of desire', where would I find this in the authoritative word of God? What passage of scripture teaches one gets into heaven because they desire such? There's only one way, the narrow way. That is why many will not enter, they refuse to accept this exclusive way found only in the bible, nothing added. Until you are willing to accept God's word as the ONLY authoritative source, you will come up short. Your refusal to listen to those outside your beloved church will cost you dearly, it will be one of the many things that will haunt you through all eternity. Many have given you the truth, such as Micheal Hranek, but you reject it as a 'prot' view, even though everything said can be found in God's word. When what is posted is backed with scripture, it does not make the posting a 'prot' view, it makes it the powerful, authoritative word of God as many try to give you the gospel truth. As long as you cling to 'sacred tradition' you will perish in your sins. May we all pray for your salvation.
Q. Do you have your bishops approval to read from an unauthorized version of Scripture?
A. No. I don't need it.
Q. Similar to the so-called church fathers the roman priest and bishops are never in agreement on many issues.
A. There are many minor points on which disagreement is permitted. On major points, they commit sin by their dissent.
Q. According to Roman authority are you a saint?
A. While I am in a state of grace, I am a member of the Communion of Saints. I cease to be a member if I commit a serious sin, and can only return by repenting.
Q. Where in the Bible do we find a person "sainted"(canonized) after their death?
A. Nowhere that I know of.
Q. You do realize that in history the Papacy forbid roman adherents from reading so-called Protestant Bibles?
A. Yes. They were on the Index of Prohibited Books until about 40 years ago. They were translations made without approval, and might have contained serious errors. The current view of them is more lenient.
Q. As late as 1934, a papist was forbid to read a translation from a non-Vulgate latin, which they still hold as the authentic version.
A. I don't know. But those who could read them were certainly allowed to read and study the Greek and Hebrew originals.
dee wrote: Could you tell me what works the thief on the cross did before Jesus said, "Today you will be with me in paradise?"
In Catholicism it's called "baptism of desire" (even though in this case, the thief surely did not even know that there was such as things as baptism). It is available to those who do not know Christ, yet strive to do the will of God.
brother Michael wrote: amongst other lies I could list here that,"...Baptism is the basis of the whole Christian life, the gateway to life in the Spirit [where] [t]hrough Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ, are incorporated into the Church and made sharers in her mission: "Baptism is the sacrament of regeneration through water in the word." (1213 Catechism of the Catholic Church)
I guess that whether you regard that as a lie or not depends on which brand of Protestantism you adhere to.
These exchanges with â€śFaithâ€ť remind me of Abigail from Oregon or Mr. Fletcher from FL during the postings under the â€śPope asks Christians, Muslims to find Common Groundâ€ť article last September at www.sermonaudio.com/new_details.asp?ID=24378
I wouldnâ€™t waste much time with this. You know how it ends â€¦ a locked thread and lots of worn out keyboards.
Lance Eccles wrote: If that is so, then you weren't a well-instructed Catholic. In Catholicism the attitude you describe is called "presumption" -- presuming you are saved.
Lance - actually I was well instructed in the doctrines of Rome for she taught me, amongst other lies I could list here that,"...Baptism is the basis of the whole Christian life, the gateway to life in the Spirit [where] [t]hrough Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ, are incorporated into the Church and made sharers in her mission: "Baptism is the sacrament of regeneration through water in the word." (1213 Catechism of the Catholic Church)
Faith, no one ever said that we had no choice. All these ideas (from Mike, Michael Hranek, myself, and others) are from the word of God. You need to stop hiding behind your hate of Calvinism and face the word of God; you are arguing with God, not us.
Abram "believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness." (Gen. 15:6, Rom. 4:3) This before all of his acts of obedience (i.e., circumcision, sacrifice on Mt. Moriah, before even the name change to Abraham). The Lord knew his heart and accounted his belief as righteousness.
No one ever said we were some sort of puppet on a string, but you seem to believe God is wringing His hands, waiting to see the outcome of this whole mess. God is sovreign and has taken care of everything, from beginning to end. That is why Jesus Christ is "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." (Rev. 13:8)
Job realized this when he said, "I know that You can do everything, and that no purpose of Yours can be withheld from You... Therefore, I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes." (Job 42:2, 6)
These are not "one or two verses with unclear meanings and spinning them in a way that contradicts the rest of the Bible leads to ridiculous conclusions." This is the whole counsel of God, from beginning to end.
I agree with enough already. I was raised in religion and outwardly most would say I had everything I needed to "accept" Jesus or ask him into my heart.
Yes, I was raised in Romanism, but there was enough of the Bible throughout my upbringing that I knew the basic gospel message and testified to my belief in the Apostle's creed. But did this head knowledge every penetrate my heart convicting me of my sin? Did it ever cause me to honestly assess myself in the mirror of God's word and acknowledge my terminal condition? Hardly for I was a Catholic and because of this was on my way to heaven and nothing you could have said would have convinced me otherwise.
Here, I could write a tome chronicling my life of sin and how I spiraled down deeper and deeper into the dark recesses of sin and even then it was by God's grace that I did not go even deeper. And the tragedy is that I loved most every minute of it as sin is surely pleasurable for a season.
But then grace came and my eyes were opened up to my sin, my dead religion and my terminal state. To God Alone be the Glory for saving a wretch like me for once I was lost but now am found was blind but now I see.
To think we added anything to God's salvation plan means we are taking credit for something only God can grant. I wanted nothing to do with God, I ignored everything to do with Christianity...that is, until God humbled me. He brought me to godly sorrow, opened up my understanding, and saved me. He does everything in His timing, according to His will. I did NOT choose God, He chose me. Only a proud, arrogant heart would take credit for something they could not possibly bring to pass. "No one understands, no one seeks for God." Romans 3:11
Mike wrote: 1. The Bible does not teach that man has no will. It does teach that man is a slave to sin and has a fallen nature that loves darkness rather than light, and that no one seeks after God. Man's will therefore is in bondage to sin. Quite a difference from your point about "no will"
Like totally depraved?
Mike wrote: 2. Ephesians 2 clearly teaches that believers were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world.
Chosen to be irresistably overtaken? So otherwise, do you believe humans have choices except for this one thing, salvation?