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Breaking News Home | All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | SA News
FRONT PAGE  |  8/30/2015
WEDNESDAY, FEB 6, 2008  |  30 comments
CIA Chief: We Waterboarded
CIA director Michael Hayden confirmed in an open session of Congress Tuesday his agency's use of an interrogation technique many consider torture -- a technique at the center of a national debate on the treatment of U.S. detainees in the war on terror and in the war in Iraq.

In acknowledging that CIA officers and contractors used waterboarding on three "high-value" detainees, Hayden revealed information nearly identical to that shared by a former CIA officer last December with ABC News, which prompted the CIA to request a criminal prosecution.

Until Hayden's comments before the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence today, no senior U.S. intelligence official had publicly acknowledged the technique ...


CLICK HERE to Read Entire Article
abcnews.go.com

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· Page 1 ·  Found: 30 user comment(s)
News Item2/12/08 6:41 PM
Susan Miller | West Palm Beach, FL  Find all comments by Susan Miller
Military prosecutors announced yesterday that they have filed death penalty charges "against a former senior leader of Al Qaeda and five other Guantánamo detainees on Monday for their roles" in the 9/11 attacks.

One of these detainees, Khalid Sheikh Mohammad, the so-called 9/11 "mastermind," has been confirmed to have been waterboarded. Yesterday evening, Attorney General Mike Mukasey refused to rule out using this evidence in court, saying, "What evidence gets presented at this trial is up to the prosecutors."

On CNN last night, Charles Swift, the "hero of Guantanamo" who represented Salim Hamdan in the case Hamdan v. Rumsfeld, slammed the government's refusal to rule out waterboarding-based evidence in the military commission:

SWIFT: And if we use — we move beyond the torture discussion to the question of using this in a trial where life and death is at stake. If we use waterboarded testimony in that trial, to my knowledge…the last precedent for using that kind of testimony was the Spanish Inquisition.

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/02/12/swift-911

30

News Item2/10/08 2:41 PM
AntiVaticanistAmerican  Find all comments by AntiVaticanistAmerican
"Steve aka Xtian" & "SBGG" only CONFIRM The Universal Historic FACT That Water-Boarding is Unequivocal, Categorical and Literal. . . . . . . . . . . . .

TORTURE ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

*Note: Water-Boarding is INDEED & Of A TRUTH Inhumane/UnGodly/Diabolical/Sadistic/Satanic-Vaticanist/"Jesuitic"-Inquisitionous TORTURE: No IFs, ANDs or BUTs About IT ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

"Water Boarding: The prisoner is bound to an inclined board, feet raised and head slightly below the feet. Cellophane is wrapped over the prisoner's face and water is poured over him. Unavoidably, the gag reflex kicks in and a terrifying fear of drowning leads to almost instant pleas to bring the treatment to a halt."

**Except the MEAN Sicilian-Italian Viet-Nam Vets from "The Clown's" crew at Grand & May in Chicago; would duct-tape the victim's hands & feet onto the "board"; hold their prisoner's head with a vise-grip: and then put the poor subject's head (nostrils as far "up" as possible) under a foucet of continual running water until the victim actually/literally drowns; then they would perform "mouth-to-mouth" resuscitation & revive the prisoner--only to repeat the process until the victim either confesses or literally drowns on his own blood & body fluids (not to mention collapsed lungs)!!!!!!

29

News Item2/9/08 10:50 PM
Steve aka Xtian | colorado  Find all comments by Steve aka Xtian
John wrote:
Steve.
Since you're the one who's interested,
why not have your own self subjected to
WB. Then you can tell us "back-seat
drivers" how bad it really is.
Hi John,

BTDT while in the military (POW/SERE school in the 80's) & its extreme as SBGG said. I saw my limits & don't ever want to go down that road again.

Point being those who say its not really torture, its just water splashing, &/or its acceptable, they've never been subjected to it, so how can they make such a judgment call? Simple, they cannot.

Its a shame there are too many backseat drivers everywhere. The worst are those who are in the church, who say one thing, but live another. If we are in a spiritual battle, dont you think we had better start acting like it? Isnt it time for those who call themselves "christian" to start acting like Jesus?

Just a thot.

28

News Item2/9/08 7:43 PM
SBGG | S,Cal  Find all comments by SBGG
Not attempting to argue for the practice but am compelled pray for those who are in a position to make decisions such as this. WB as described in recent news piece:
abcnews.go.com/WNT/Investigation/story?id=1322866

Water Boarding: The prisoner is bound to an inclined board, feet raised and head slightly below the feet. Cellophane is wrapped over the prisoner's face and water is poured over him. Unavoidably, the gag reflex kicks in and a terrifying fear of drowning leads to almost instant pleas to bring the treatment to a halt.

According to the sources, CIA officers who subjected themselves to the water boarding technique lasted an average of 14 seconds before caving in. They said al Qaeda's toughest prisoner, Khalid Sheik Mohammed, won the admiration of interrogators when he was able to last between two and two-and-a-half minutes before begging to confess.

27

News Item2/9/08 5:20 PM
John | San Jose, CA  Find all comments by John
Steve aka Xtian wrote:
Anyway, WB is a carefully controlled torture technique used to repeatedly "drown" a person to the point of mental, physical & emotional breakdown, w/out actually killing them.
Again my comment is not to condone torture, but just wondering if anyone here has experienced this, or do we just have a bunch of backseat drivers who are downplaying a very harsh torture technique?
Steve.

Since you're the one who's interested,
why not have your own self subjected to
WB. Then you can tell us "back-seat
drivers" how bad it really is.

26

News Item2/9/08 2:00 PM
AntiVaticanistAmerican  Find all comments by AntiVaticanistAmerican
Jhawk44 wrote:
Simulated drowning is not what I consider torture.
Good! Then come on over to the MEANEST Sicilian/Italian neighborhood in Chicago (May & Grand Ave.s), where Joey "The Clown" Lombardo's crew still hangs out [you know, THAT Joey "The Clown" Lombardo who was just Federally Convicted of CONSPIRACY Last Year (2007) in the Mob/Gangland Murder-Assassination of Chicago Businessman Daniel Siefert (1974)]; and have one of the former Vietnam-Vet "boys from the neighborhood" who "simulated drowning" ("waterboarded") many of the Vietcong-POWs (North Vietnamese POWs) back in the 1960s: and have them perform "waterboarding"/"simulated-drowing" on "jhawk44" !

After that performance, "jhawk44" can post on this sermonaudio website as "jchicken-hawk44"; or better yet "jdove666" !

*Note: Only a Military Coward, Corrupt CIA "Classified" Kook or covert Satanic-Vaticanist/Roman-"Catholic"-Cultic/CIA-Collaborating Diabolical "Jesuitic" would NEVER consider "waterboarding" as torture !

Hey, the Satanic-Vatican in the last 18 Centuries of Human History has considered their "transubstantiated" Blasphemous mass/mess as a so-called "simulated" (blood&body[water]-'boarded') "sacrifice"/torture of Jesus Christ's Once-For-All Death On The Cross (29 AD) !

25

News Item2/9/08 10:07 AM
Steve aka Xtian | colorado  Find all comments by Steve aka Xtian
Mike wrote:
Well, Steve, I'm not sure it's necessary to have been tortured to know it isn't good... wonder if having water poured on your face is torture...
Hi Mike,

My comments not to say WB is okay, or one must be tortured to say so. True there are much worse, but WB is not just "water poured on your face". Its comments like these that show an ignorance of the topic (ignorance is used as a person without full knowledge of a subject; I do not use as it as an insult - case in point I am ignorant of quantum physics, chia pets & the hypnotic effect of barney & how it differs between children & adults).

Anyway, WB is a carefully controlled torture technique used to repeatedly "drown" a person to the point of mental, physical & emotional breakdown, w/out actually killing them.

Again my comment is not to condone torture, but just wondering if anyone here has experienced this, or do we just have a bunch of backseat drivers who are downplaying a very harsh torture technique?

I am not being sarcastic or demeaning, I am honestly wondering because those that have experienced WB do not downplay its harshness. Of course the world will do what it will do. The only lasting change is thru Jesus Christ.

I look forward to more replies.

Love,

24

News Item2/9/08 10:06 AM
John | San Jose, CA  Find all comments by John
terry evans wrote:
Sorry, are there any examples of torture
in the Bible, besides those solders who killed Jesus?
"Torture" is a pretty loaded word, which is why I ALSO used the
phrase "military coersion", which also sets the context (i.e.
wartime, government-level--NOT individual-level application of
justice/vengence/reprisal/etc., which Protestant so eloquently
dealt with in his comment.

euphemisms are good if they can keep people from getting too upset
to clearly think through a difficult subject, but they are bad if
they downplay any horror that should be dealt with in that subject.

It's tough to balance the two, as I am trying to do now.

Military coersion in the Bible is probably more common than "torture",
but the only passage I can think of at this time is Judges 1:24-25.

23

News Item2/9/08 9:41 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Steve aka Xtian wrote:
Ummm....
So Jhawk44, do you speak from experience? IOW have you ever been "waterboarded" for any considerable length of time?
Just curious
Well, Steve, I'm not sure it's necessary to have been tortured to know it isn't good. But you have to wonder if having water poured on your face is torture in the sense that being drawn and quartered, stretched on the rack, tarred and feathered, or having your shoulders dislocated, as the North Vietnamese were fond of doing, is.
22

News Item2/9/08 8:46 AM
Steve aka Xtian | colorado  Find all comments by Steve aka Xtian
Jhawk44 wrote:
Simulated drowning is not what I consider torture.
Ummm....

So Jhawk44, do you speak from experience? IOW have you ever been "waterboarded" for any considerable length of time?

Just curious

21

News Item2/8/08 10:54 AM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
Physical beating in Scripture is always a punishment, as far as I know.

Waterboarding was used on Allied prisoners during the Korean "police action", & probably Vietnam as well. According to Solzhenitsyn, "non-injurious" tortures used by the Soviet NKVD included deprivation of sleep, water dripping on the forehead, & even tickling the nose with a feather. They would even impersonate screams from "tortured loved ones" down the hall.

20

News Item2/8/08 2:42 AM
SBGG | S.Cal  Find all comments by SBGG
And it shall be, if the wicked man be worthy to be beaten, that the judge shall cause him to lie down, and to be beaten. Deuteronomy 25:2

Ohter not so typical memory verses:
Ex. 20:21-22
Pro. 20:23
1Chr. 20.23

19

News Item2/8/08 1:22 AM
33k  Find all comments by 33k
Terry,

May it please God to send a helpmeet suitable for you.
And for your part - keep up a holy search!

18

News Item2/8/08 1:17 AM
terry evans | miramar beach fl  Contact via emailFind all comments by terry evans
[Removed by Moderator Delta]
17

News Item2/8/08 1:15 AM
33k  Find all comments by 33k
No problem, Terry. I understood what you meant to convey, but I wanted to ensure clarity on such grave matters for my part.

btw - I am a brother.

16

News Item2/8/08 1:10 AM
terry evans | miramar beach fl  Contact via emailFind all comments by terry evans
33k wrote:
Thank you, but personally I think it's heartbreaking, and we should weep and mourn for the professed church in our day.
I won't keep you, sister is it?
I agree, but sometimes when you bring it up purly for instruction, for edification of the saints, its not so hard to speak of. Your comment, bears fruit
"but personally I think it's heartbreaking"
For how will they hear, God has His Ways
15

News Item2/8/08 1:03 AM
33k  Find all comments by 33k
terry evans wrote:
Wow, thats pretty cool
I think there is more biblical hope for the eventual repentance of waterboarders than the hardened religious establishment
Thanks and Amen
Thank you, but personally I think it's heartbreaking, and we should weep and mourn for the professed church in our day.
14

News Item2/8/08 12:57 AM
terry evans | miramar beach fl  Contact via emailFind all comments by terry evans
33k wrote:
I was pondering on just that question myself earlier today. I would be interested in what you and others think.
I wasn't actually thinking beyond the specific reports of waterboarding already given in the news reports. You raise an interesting question by extension. I have seen churches destroyed by pastors who lie to the church like Ananias and bully people out like Diotrophes. According to the three marks of a true church we can see that such churches are not churches at all when they utterly reject the practise of biblical church discipline. Are they waterboarders? No, I think there is more biblical hope for the eventual repentance of waterboarders than the hardened religious establishment.
Wow, thats pretty cool
I think there is more biblical hope for the eventual repentance of waterboarders than the hardened religious establishment

Thanks and Amen

13

News Item2/8/08 12:52 AM
33k  Find all comments by 33k
terry evans wrote:
Lovely verses, I enjoy reading Gods Word....

Sorry, are there any examples of torture
in the Bible, besides those solders who killed Jesus?

I was pondering on just that question myself earlier today. I would be interested in what you and others think.

I wasn't actually thinking beyond the specific reports of waterboarding already given in the news reports. You raise an interesting question by extension. I have seen churches destroyed by pastors who lie to the church like Ananias and bully people out like Diotrophes. According to the three marks of a true church we can see that such churches are not churches at all when they utterly reject the practice of biblical church discipline. Are such men waterboarders? No, I think not. There is more biblical hope for the eventual repentance of waterboarders than the hardened established religious leaders.

12

News Item2/8/08 12:15 AM
terry evans | miramar beach fl  Contact via emailFind all comments by terry evans
33k wrote:
Protestant - Excellent comment. The waterboarders amongst us destroy our society far more effectively than 19 hijackers ever can do.
One quibble though.

Self-incrimination is valid when it is given freely

"Lord, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill?He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart.
He that backbiteth not with his tongue, nor doeth evil to his neighbour, nor taketh up a reproach against his neighbour.
In whose eyes a vile person is contemned; but he honoureth them that fear the LORD. He that sweareth to his own hurt, and changeth not.
He that putteth not out his money to usury, nor taketh reward against the innocent. He that doeth these things shall never be moved."

Hi 33k
Lovely verses, I enjoy reading Gods Word.
If I may, what is a waterboarder?
And How will they destroy our society far more effectively than 19 hijackers ever can do?

Is a waterboarder He that backbiteth not with his tongue, nor doeth evil to his neighbour, nor taketh up a reproach against his neighbour.
Maybe
nor waterboarder taketh reward against the innocent

Sorry, are there any examples of torture
in the Bible, besides those solders who killed Jesus?

11
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