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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  9/30/2014
Choice News SATURDAY, NOV 3, 2007  |  21 comments
Pastor on trial for refusal to work with female minister
A pastor who refused to work with a female minister because of his biblical convictions has been charged with criminal discrimination by a Finnish court.

Ari Norro will be on trial Nov. 16 for allegedly violating Finland's laws barring discrimination in the workplace or in public based on gender and other grounds, including sexual orientation, Christianity Today magazine reported.

Norro is a member of the Lutheran Evangelical Association in Finland, a group within the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland that believes the Bible does not allow women to serve as pastors. ...


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· Page 1 ·  Found: 21 user comment(s)
News Item11/17/07 2:03 PM
terry evans | miramar beach fl  Contact via emailFind all comments by terry evans
LumpyMeatLoaf wrote:
Greetings Terry Evans,
Evidently, you are mistaken. Debate has many terms not just our own limited subjective views. Thesaurus English; debate (in verb form); discuss, dispute or to question. I am afraid Jesus did debate. So, you are saying Jesus didn’t question Satan concerning scripture?
All things with proper names are considered proper nouns(person, place or thing), which are to be capitalized. When a person is directly addressing a subject in a direct way such as “God in heaven” it is capitalized. Even the name “Devil” gets this same English rule when applied as a proper noun.
As far as the spiritual judgment; please read 1 Corinthians 5. St Paul directs us to judge those who are in the church claiming to be Christians and are willfully sinning (please read). As a matter of fact, read 1 Timothy 19. Cling tightly to your faith in Christ and always keep your conscience clear, doing what you know is right. For some people have disobeyed their consciences and have deliberately done what they knew was wrong.Remember, that we are directed to understand not all spirits are from God; you will know them by their fruits.
Jesus is Lord
thanks for the english lesson
you some good english teacher
thats all, lumpy
21

News Item11/17/07 9:20 AM
LumpyMeatLoaf  Find all comments by LumpyMeatLoaf
Greetings Terry Evans,
Evidently, you are mistaken. Debate has many terms not just our own limited subjective views. Thesaurus English; debate (in verb form); discuss, dispute or to question. I am afraid Jesus did debate. So, you are saying Jesus didn’t question Satan concerning scripture?
All things with proper names are considered proper nouns(person, place or thing), which are to be capitalized. When a person is directly addressing a subject in a direct way such as “God in heaven” it is capitalized. Even the name “Devil” gets this same English rule when applied as a proper noun.
As far as the spiritual judgment; please read 1 Corinthians 5. St Paul directs us to judge those who are in the church claiming to be Christians and are willfully sinning (please read). As a matter of fact, read 1 Timothy 19. Cling tightly to your faith in Christ and always keep your conscience clear, doing what you know is right. For some people have disobeyed their consciences and have deliberately done what they knew was wrong.Remember, that we are directed to understand not all spirits are from God; you will know them by their fruits.
Jesus is Lord
20

News Item11/17/07 12:59 AM
terry evans | miramar beach fl  Contact via emailFind all comments by terry evans
LumpyMeatLoaf wrote:
1. Let us look at your own misguided heart…. You say that debates won’t win souls. My friend Jesus debated the scripture himself with Satan.
You say god doesn’t use women, then by what power did Katherine Kulman, Maria woosworth-
No He did not, Jesus quoted scripture.(period) no debate.
Just an observation, you always when referring to woman, use an upper case letter in there name, but not God.

3. Then you ask by what power these women used to operate in; that thousands were saved, healed and delivered as the result of their ministry. Why do you have to ask such a question; considering the unbiblical approaches in which these women utilized; talking to the dead, going to cemeteries and visiting the graves of the dead-seeking to gain their spiritual powers from previous charismatic charlatans’?

4. They were healed, saved and delivered as a result of their ministry?

Buy what power?

You also said
2. I noticed that you didn’t bother capitalizing god. Was this out of error or disrespect?

glass house don't throw stones

19

News Item11/17/07 12:40 AM
LumpyMeatLoaf  Find all comments by LumpyMeatLoaf
Mr. Broken,
You said, “These debates don't win souls. If god doesn't use women, then by what power did Kathern Kuhlman, Mariawoodworth-Etter or Aime simple Mcpherson operate - that thousands were saved, healed and delivered as a result of their ministry. Surely there are bigger issues for you to be angry about - like maybe examining why your own love for God .”
1. Let us look at your own misguided heart…. You say that debates won’t win souls. My friend Jesus debated the scripture himself with Satan.
You say god doesn’t use women, then by what power did Katherine Kulman, Maria woosworth-Etter or Aime simple Mcpherson operate-that thousands were saved, healed and delivered as a result of their ministry.
2. I noticed that you didn’t bother capitalizing god. Was this out of error or disrespect?

3. Then you ask by what power these women used to operate in; that thousands were saved, healed and delivered as the result of their ministry. Why do you have to ask such a question; considering the unbiblical approaches in which these women utilized; talking to the dead, going to cemeteries and visiting the graves of the dead-seeking to gain their spiritual powers from previous charismatic charlatans’?

4. They were healed, saved and delivered as a result of their ministry?

18

News Item11/12/07 6:32 PM
Trevor Downunder | Bribane Australia  Contact via emailFind all comments by Trevor Downunder
your statement proves the real truth of scripture, and all that the Holy Spirit meant, all of the three "women" you mentioned were "not saved" and were false prophets, and are now paying the penalty of their unbelief in hell. I wish I had more space to elaborate. One thing for sure , God`s word will always stand the test of time and be proved at the Judgement,for all unbelievers.
17

News Item11/11/07 5:36 PM
kat | Australia  Find all comments by kat
I think people look at these issues all wrong; it's a matter of ROLES, not EQUALITY. If we quit worrying about being so politically correct, and look at the different roles God has laid out for Man and Woman, things might make more sense.

So many of us need to read far more of what God has put down for us, and I am so glad to hear of people standing up, and instead of backing down when it comes to issues like these.

16

News Item11/11/07 4:30 PM
Churchmouse | USA  Find all comments by Churchmouse
Broken,
How can you be "a MAN after God's own heart" when you don't know what scripture teaches? I also noticed you have man in all caps. Amazing how someone can be so prideful and not hesitate to understand what the will of the Lord is, yet feel he is a man after God's own heart. Simply amazing.

1Ti 2:12-14 I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

What do you think it means when Paul addresses the created order, Broken? Please take time to consider the Word of God. Your soul might depend upon it.

15

News Item11/10/07 2:41 PM
Donald W Wooten | Gettysburg, Pennsylvania  Protected NameContact via emailFind all comments by Donald W Wooten
This pastor is right to not condone a practice that is forbidden by Scripture. The debate over the woman's right to pastor, preach, or teach as part of the functions of a church is primarily based upon the assumption of personal rights and one's ability being the call to serve in that capacity. This denies God His rights to establish conduct based upon His wisdom and sovereignty. Christian conduct is determined by God's explicit commands and requires the explicit submission and obedience of His people. God's denial of the above role for women has nothing whatsoever to do with abilities, and especially with imagined personal rights. Basing decisions upon the recorded actions of a Christian couple, in Acts, or a woman leading a Jewish army, in Judges, cannot overturn the explicit commands found elsewhere throughout the OT and NT Scriptures. None of these commands have been repealed.
The Word of God nowhere teaches that the woman is inferior to man. The fact that God had commanded different functions and behavior for each is His sovereign right. It is the sins of pride, willfulness, and rebellion that gives the allusion of doing right while being disobedient to Him. Personal understanding or agreement have never been a prerequisite to obedience to God's commands.
14

News Item11/5/07 2:37 PM
Seaton  Find all comments by Seaton
Broken
If God wanted male and female to carry out the same function and role in life then HE would have created us that way, - and made it obvious in Scripture.

The reason why the church and society is being destroyed today is because of the Satanic religion of Liberalism.

This same satanic religion rejects the Word of God, the Law of God and destroys family and motherhood by denying the role of the female.

This same satanic religion is responsible for sanctifying sin and the acceptance of abominations.

The role of the woman in Scripture is clearly defined and does not include preaching. NOT because of her human attribute to communicate. BUT because GOD will NOT use her in that way.

Therefore her "preaching" is of no use to anyone in the pew or the pulpit.

By leaving the home and motherhood to usurp the role of the male, she worships mammon, and does NOT serve God!!!

13

News Item11/5/07 2:13 PM
Broken | USA  Find all comments by Broken
I must say I am not ashamed of a woman working in the church, I am ashamed that men would become more indignant about a woman wanting to serve, than about the condition of a godless world. These debates don't win souls. If god doesn't use women, then by what power did Kathern Kuhlman, Maria woodworth-Etter or Aime simple Mcpherson operate - that thousands were saved, healed and delivered as a result of their ministry. Surely there are bigger issues for you to be angry about - like maybe examining why your own love for God and mankind has dwindled and probably along with your peace and joy -

signed
a MAN after God's own heart

12

News Item11/4/07 4:47 PM
John | San Jose, CA  Find all comments by John
"A pastor who refused to work with a female minister because of his biblical
convictions has been charged with criminal discrimination by a Finnish court."

So proceeds the age-old confilct between earthly kingdoms and the heavenly
kingdom. As the former becomes apostate at a greater rate than the latter,
things will invariably get ugly, as Pastor Hereford points out in his post.

So far, my own denomination (OPC) is still Biblically male-led, but if this
were to change, as it has in the RCA and so many other denominations, I'll
likely "flee to the mountains"--and form my own local fellowship of like-
minded but, more importantly, BIBLICAL believers.

11

News Item11/4/07 9:10 AM
Christian Raas | Switzerland  Find all comments by Christian Raas
Unfortunately the same is going on in the Swiss Reformed Church of Switzerland. More and more women pastors, more and more women usurping authority over men in diverse church organisations and positions. So far I have never heard any swiss reformed pastor sound a protest against this unbiblical practice. What's even worse though is that more and more so-called evangelical churches who claim to be bible-believing are accepting women in spiritual leadership positions. Why should we be surprised when the Scriptures say that judgement MUST begin at the house of God?
10

News Item11/4/07 5:34 AM
davey | finland  Find all comments by davey
For many Finnish Luth pastors this is a problem especially among some of the revival movements that have stayed under the Luth umbrella. One email that I got was that it is okay for a female to become a pastor because we live in the age of "grace". Another from a retired Luth pastor in Mpls saying that mostly it is a political thing. In my local town, the Luth church has 5 female pastors and 4 men. I have been thinking of changing Christian traditions from Luth to another. In Him, davey
9

News Item11/3/07 8:43 PM
terry evans | miramar beach fl  Contact via emailFind all comments by terry evans
Can anyone answer a ? or two about this story, maybe Im confussed.
The article states
We were totally embarrassed by her arrival, (this part) for we understood very well that she was comming (to serve) at the alter, Norro told...

Yet before In march he was scheduled to preach and I assume partake in communion with this church, he was to speak at as visiting pastor during a communion service.

Yet he went ? what church?

And I can't find anywhere in the Bible where you walk out and not preach Gods Word because you don't agree with that you knew before you went there.

The article states "she showed up for her shift, she works there. Hence thats a work place.
and it appears Norro knew this so called church he was going to had female pastors, why did he go?
And what controversy over homosexuals and same sex couples. According to the Bible there is no controversy.
Could this whole thing be to prove a point?
Norro stated other denominations, such as....,and the catholic church, do not ordain women.
Maybe he should go there as a visiting pastor at a communion service, what you think?

8

News Item11/3/07 7:43 PM
Faithful Remnant  Find all comments by Faithful Remnant
This pastor and the Lutheran Evangelical Association get my full support. I look forward to my next trip back to Finland. Maybe I'll meet up with this fellow's congregation or Association.
7

News Item11/3/07 7:04 PM
terry evans | miramar beach fl  Contact via emailFind all comments by terry evans
Dr. Steve Hereford wrote:
This is the same kind of legislation the democrats have been trying to push through their so called "hate crimes" bills. Beware, it's coming!
Amen someone in the Bible said to watch.
Good thing though, in the USA most churches are incorperated by the Gov't so some are already implementing the new rules, should be a smooth transition, all the so called christian leaders will bow a knee.
Notice how he claims the other christian churchs do the same thing.
1. good christian, take everyone with you, see, somtimes catholics are christians, I feel sorry for all the hatred, arguing has never coverted a soul, that I know of anyway.
2. Why must man justify himself with other men, just let God justify man, and spread the word.
6

News Item11/3/07 5:26 PM
albert | Northern Ireland  Find all comments by albert
It shouldn't be hart to prove from the scriptures the roll of a woman in the christian church,why he could even call the pope of for a witness

But anyway
Thats Why "ye must be born again"

5

News Item11/3/07 5:22 PM
Seaton  Find all comments by Seaton
1Cor 5:11 "But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person."

The problem of course is within the denomination rather than the secular legislation. Had the church itself not commited the transgression of putting women into the pulpit, then this could never happen. The solution is if your denomination leaves the Bible, then YOU must leave the church!

For this reason True Christians should leave the C of England, the C of Scotland and the Baptist Union churches.

4

News Item11/3/07 4:12 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
"Women Are To Listen and Learn"
Gil Rugh said or, wrote:
....
It is God's intention, as this passage indicates, that when each local church assembles women are not to assume the authority to lead or teach. Rather the godly woman will be quietly submissive to the men's leading and teaching. This attitude and conduct will be consistent with the order of creation which established the principle for this role. How this is applied to the gifts of prophecy and speaking in tongues that some women had in the early church, is discussed as this message draws to a conclusion.

As is frequently the case, to do other than what God has said causes chaos, division, confusion and disorder, even in our churches down through today.

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=72007113047

3

News Item11/3/07 1:34 PM
Dessie | WV  Find all comments by Dessie
I agree wtih the STAND; however I have
no idea of how fundamental this
minister is...

At least he is correct about this.
Women are ugly and deformed who try
IN anyway to usurp authority or teach
men. It grieves me to hear them speak
in a church service. I TIMOTHY 2:12
By the way this has never occured in
any church I have attented and it never will. On occasion, I have come
across them on TV and are immediately
ZAPPD!
Come on with the negative feedback;
however, do not expect me to debate
or argue this point...
The Word of God stands for ITS self
on this subject! Thank God for His
Truth and it reqires no DEBATE.

2
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