hi Chuck I was encouraged by your comments. I am a catholic that converted to reformed faith. i am a theology student here in Leeds England. one of my lecturers is a Eastern Orthodos, another ins Catholic, another is Reformed. We share so much in common. Namely Jesus. Most people have no indecation how the scriptures came to us. You made sme good points regarding the Apocrpha. And it is true that we glean some good information from them. I think there are so many on this site that have tunnel vision. though I would now consider myslef reformed in doctrine, I enjoy the writing's of Pope Benedict. TYo those that are ignorant, his book on jesus of Nazareth is excellent. he stands as a Figure that fights for the advance of secularism and reltivism. There are amny of us in the not so Roamn traditon that do admire in the currnet pope. He stands as a figure that fights agains evil and injustice. We are all members of the universal body of the Church which in itself is Catholic, but we are not without order as you suggest, as our head is Christ. But as a scholar and as a Christian I welcome you comments Yours in Christ Jenny
The Good News of the Catholic Church is the same Good News of the Protestant Church--we are justified through faith lest we should boast of our works . I believe that is not in the apocrypha but in Paul which we both read (last I looked unless some Protestant changed that). The good news in the RC church is that there is an order. We are not building in Babel only to find our works collapse under the desolution of disagreement. We can't all be right. At times even Protestants look to the Pope for finality to help the building of God's Kingdom on earth progress. This is such an instance. By the way, if the Apocrypha is anathema, why was it in the Bible at Jesus time (and he never questioned it)? Jesus in all His preaching and teaching never once said certain books in the Bible were wrong. In fact (here's da best part)Paul in 2 Timothy 3:16 says that all Scripture is inspired by God and useful for refutation, teaching and correction . He did not say right after "with the exception of the apocryha." There are no ifs ands or buts !! The exclusion of the Apocrypha came with certain rabinical scholars after Christ's Resurrection. The funny part is that Jews celebrate Hanukah, whose historical reference can only be found today in that same apocrypha .
Peter1, my new email begins with "tx". If you have that address, then yes. Otherwise, my communicating with you lets all the nutwads that would call me at 2am have a shot at me. Send me your cell no#, if you would like. Be warned, I am not looking for a new faith system.
Peter1 wrote: GG: After 5 years of debating with you, can we actually talk on the phone sometime? I'm really not a psycho killer, I would just like to have a real conversation with you. I still have your eMail to exchange phone numbers if you are interested.
After 5 years of debating with you, can we actually talk on the phone sometime? I'm really not a psycho killer, I would just like to have a real conversation with you. I still have your eMail to exchange phone numbers if you are interested.
1. there are works involved... GG: I find this question hard to understand. The 'works' are not ours, but Christ's. His power grants us grace, when we DO HIS WILL. Even if the 'works' were ours, they do not save us. I term this 'obedience'.
2. When you call names... GG: You are being disingenious here. I show love by being concerned about anothers well-fair. I meet disrespectfulness with disrespect.
3. Jesus not a complete saviour: GG: The O.T. says somewhere that man has a choice between life and death. Since man made the choice to sin in the garden, man must make the choice to reject rebellion and choose to serve God. We believe in 'Free Will', because we are made in God's image. God's grace Redeemed us, convicts us, ultimately saves us, gives us life, grants us pardon, inspires us to good works. All that is required to say "Yes" to God, just like Mary did. The Church is powerless at our judgement, only Christ can save us then.
4. Men are dead in sin- I agree 5. Men cannot revive themselves- I agree 6. Jesus brings life- I agree 7. Only some respond- I agree 8. All His rightousness is theirs- I disagree. We feel that God infuses his own life into sinners a baptism. Sanctification is a life long process. You are my brother regardless of your feelings.
Peeter 1st: Our Gospel is not really all that different from yours, but you will lie and say it is! Mankind has fallen into sin, and can't save himself. God the Father sends his only son to Redeem the world. Only those who come to recognize who Jesus is and repent of their sins and reform their lives will be saved eventually(its a process, not an event!). Good works are expected and rewarded, but will not save you. Prayer thru the 'Communion of Saints' is allowed but not required. Salvation is: Christ alone, Grace alone thru Faith in Christ, with Hope, and Charity. The best path is thru the Church founded by Christ. Not all Catholics will be saved, while some non-catholics will be saved. There is a group of 'Elect', but only God knows who they are. Short Answer: Have Faith in Jesus, and love your neighbor.
Nothing new under the sun. First, `nominal christiansÂ´ are enticed into a church offering `some sort of certaintyÂ´ - then congregations comprising `nominalchristiansÂ´follow suit and then it may well be that whole denominations - in the oecumenical movement for example - may go over `en blocÂ´ to Rome.
These times are reviewed in Pauls Second Epistle to the Thessalonians, chapter 2; and in his Second Epistle to Timothy, Chapter 4.
The Gospel is plain for all that have eyes to see :-
"Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is none else." (Isaiah, 45;22) - and - "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;" (Hebrews,12;2)
Peter1 wrote: ...no good news in your gospel. I would keep it a secret too! I know Lance does...
Interesting comment, though a little puzzling.
Incidentally, so matter what one thinks of the various choices of alternative religion by dissatisfied Anglicans, the actions of these people demonstrate that they want a church with some sort of certainty, which the Anglican Church doesn't provide.
I expect there will be more and more Anglicans heading in the direction of RC'ism, Evangelicalism, Orthodoxy, and anything else that doesn't look like a doctrinal smorgasbord.
GG wrote: They may or may not understand the Gospel, although I doubt that you do either, but at least they know the true Church that Christ founded over 2000 years ago. Too bad that you refuse the truth. Why not read the whole bible, perhaps that will sharpen your wits and save you?
Please tell me GG what is the Gospel that you proclaim? Since you accuse me of not knowing the Gospel, surly you would want to tell a condemned man like me the truth that you have in your church's repository. Please tell wicked men like me what is the RCC's good news for sinners!
from the above,'the Apocrypha has been used historically by the Catholic Church to support its own unbiblical teachings in the same manner that the â€ślost booksâ€ť support the unbiblical teachings of certain New Age groups and other religions.'
True Christianity follows the idea of Sola Scriptura, "Basic Differences between Romanism and Bible Christianity"
They may or may not understand the Gospel, although I doubt that you do either, but at least they know the true Church that Christ founded over 2000 years ago. Too bad that you refuse the truth. Why not read the whole bible, perhaps that will sharpen your wits and save you?
Here we have a blatant admission that these anglican churches clearly do not know the Gospel, nor the power thereof. They have publically condemned and humiliated themselves. Oh, but how much more on judgment day?
Joel 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.