Pope asks Christians, Muslims to find Common Ground
Pope Benedict voiced the hope on Thursday that Christians and Muslims can avoid violence and intolerance by exploring their common religious values and respecting their differences.
The leader of the world's 1.1 billion Roman Catholics has sought reconciliation with Muslims since an ill-fated speech in Germany a year ago, when he quoted a 14th century Byzantine emperor as saying Prophet Mohammad spread faith "by the sword".
"To avoid any form of intolerance from developing and to prevent violence, we must encourage sincere dialogue based on ever truer mutual knowledge," the Pope told visiting bishops from Benin, West Africa, on Thursday....
These people do not have a free will. God forces them into salvation if they happen to be the 'ELECT", which they are not sure if they are, only God knows.
They believe the Westminster Confession of Faith. It states that they are saved without any works and that they cannot loose their salvation.
They believe in killing their enemies.
They believe in birth control.
They believe in divorce and remarriage. They give what they call a biblical reason, but they accept everyone that is divorced and remarried.
They cannot understand the Scripture that states we cannot serve God and Mammon, either we will hate one and love the other or we will despise one and cleave to the other.
They do not understand what the Scripture means that if we love the world and the things of the world, the love of the Father is not in us. Scripture means nothing to them, except the ones that they use to justify their beliefs.
The foundation for their beliefs is "NOT OF WORKS LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST" and all other Scriptures are interpreted to agree with that.
Dan, Your question brings to mind the Apostle's word of caution that "Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, while evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived." Because we live our lives opposed to the world and allow no defiling elements into are community we are called a cult. So are the Amish, the Old Order Brethern, the Hutterites, the Old Order Mennonites and all others who live in accordance with their calling as saints oppossed to the philosophies, theologies, and humanisms of this present evil world.
But hath not Paul admonished that we must not "be unequally yoked with unbelievers[the disobedient]. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? What accord has Christ with Belial? OR what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? WHat agreement has the temple of God with idols??" God our Father commands us to "touch no unclean thing." These are promises, which Paul says if we are to believe, we must "cleanse ourselves from every defilement of body and spirit, bringing holiness to completion in the fear of God." Our community knows how to "purge the evil persons from among us." We have the keys to the kingdom to loose and bi
Dan, Again, the parable makes it very clear we can know with 100% certainty who is a wheat and who is a tare. Christ says "ye shall know them by their fruits." The gospel cannot be faked. This is why John can say "He that doeth good is of God:but he that doeth evil has not seen God." We who can discern between good and evil can know a spade when we see one.
I said nothing about claiming to obey Christ. Those are your words not mine. I said we must obey the commandments of Christ to enter Heaven, plain and simple. I did not say we must claim to, anybody can tell the difference.
You have been infected with pagan individualism unfortunately. The community is of utmost importance in salvation for Paul says "God has composed the body, giving greate honor to the part that lacked it, that there may be no division in the body, but that members may have the same care for one another. If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together." "For there is one body and one Spirit...one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all." One member cannot to the other I have no need of you. Christ and His Church have been united in matrimony and if you are seperate from it you shall never inherit the kingdom.
There is nothing in the parable of the wheat and tares to indicate what the wheat and tares know or donât know. Just the Sower and His servants (and the enemy, of course). Every person in the world is either wheat or tare and we donât know with 100% certainty which the other person might be. We can only observe them over time and âcall âem like we see âemâ using Godâs word as our guide.
Also, I said nothing about whether knowing Jesus was essential or not (although it is). All Iâm saying is that one can say he knows Jesus, has served Him all his life and obeyed all of His commands but if Jesus never knew him â he is still damned.
Iâm also saying that there may be some Amish folks who have been raised in that community who have done every single thing that they were taught and through self discipline have lived very godly-appearing lives that are lost as goats. You canât make a blanket statement like âThe Amish are the children of the kingdomâ as if that equates to salvation. There is no such thing as people group salvation. It is an individual thing.
Ernie G posted some interesting statements about Amish beliefs which you replied to. Your replies make me wonder if you believe that your salvation depends on your own performance. Are you in a cult?
Lance Eccles wrote: No, Christian, I can't. You have a good imagination.
Lance You are of course so right it is not a good imagination at all, it is a heartbreaking one that Roman Catholic people have so given themselves over to the Devil that now they've quite abandoned the Lord Jesus Christ they so claim to believe in that they are openly looking to find common ground with the religion of a murderous demon possessed pedophile, and the already evident common ground they have with Muslims is simply shocking and wretchedly evil to its core.
Dan, I must strongly disagree with you there. The men referred to in Matthew 7 wrought many great signs and wonders in Jesus' name. That they did not obey the commandments of Christ is clear in that he sternly commands them to "depart ye workers of lawlessness." These trangressors of the laws of Christ had no hope of inheriting the kingdom and nor do any others.
You are also wrong about who you know not being essential. For John declaims, "Hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments." So he we have both the positive and negative of the same proposition. The negative being that workers of iniquity cannot know Christ nor be known by Christ; the positive, that those who obey all of his commandments, ordinances, and statues know him and are known by him.
The Scriptures clearly say that everyone knows the difference between the wheat and the tares. "By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother." Christ promises the world will know you are my disciples. In the Parable of the wheat and the tares the servants of the Master knew who the tares were (sons of the evil one). The Amish are the children of the kingdom.
Mr. Fletcher, you remind me of a group of folks who have done many wonderful things in Jesusâ Name to whom Jesus shall say on that Last Day âI never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.â (Mat 7:22-23) There will probably be some faithful Amish in that group even though you are holding them up as true Christians. A person can DO all of the right things (and not do all of the wrong things) and still not be known by Him.
Itâs not who you know that gets you into Heaven or how faithful youâve been or how selfless youâve been âŠ but Who knows you.
There IS a lot of truth in what you say about the different groups that are just like the heathen. This must be as long as He allows the tares to remain with the wheat. And He will until That Day. The true church is made up of those individual âwheatâ believers no matter which group they meet with. The only thing that people miss about that is the fact that, once they mature and their âeyesâ are fully opened, they may see through Godâs Spirit that separation from those they had been meeting with is necessary â and even commanded.
Can't you just hear the whispering of the serpent and the flattering of a whorish woman in the pope's words? "To deliver thee from the strange woman, even from the stranger which flattereth with her words..." Proverbs 2:16
"For the lips of a strange woman drop as an honeycomb, and her mouth is smoother than oil..." Proverbs 5:3
"With her much fair speech she caused him to yield, with the flattering of her lips she forced him..." Proverbs 7:21
"When he speaketh fair, believe him not: for there are seven abominations in his heart..." Proverbs 26:25
"...the kisses of an enemy are deceitful..." Proverbs 27:6
It is very dangerous to trust the pope. Millions lost their lives and even their souls because they fell for his sweet seducing lies.
Lance Eccles wrote: And Michael H, if Christians say there is one God who created everything, and Muslims say there is one God who created everything, then they must be talking about the same God. Muslims just know less about Him than Christians do.
Lance No! I cannot believe that.
I have it on very good authority, that of Jesus Christ Himself in the Holy Written Word of God that they only imagine and your Roman Catholic Chruch only imagines (and therefore are blasphemously telling a lie) that Muslims are worshipping The One True and Living God.
John 4:23,24 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
John 5:22,23 22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
It is NOT that Muslims know less about God than Catholics, it is that they don't even know Him in the first place.
If that is what the Amish believe it is no wonder they are so zealous in following the Apostolic dictum to "work out one's own salvation in fear and trembling." Who gains eternal life but he who "endures until the end?" Paul warned that he had to keep himself in complete subjection to the Spirit at all times and everywhere lest after preaching the gospel of reconciliation to others, he should find himself a castaway.
The Amish are wrong on one minor point here, however. One who is walking in faithful obedience to the commandments of Christ ("faith working by love") is assured of salvation while doing so. True, one cannot know the future, but he can be assured if he "continues patiently in well-doing..God will give him eternal life." Evangelicals and Protestants for the most part are worthless scoundrels profaning the name of Christ all over the world, to Satan's greater glory. The Amish have it right.
"They don't sound much different than catholics or penecostal charismatics!" Evangelicals don't look much different from sinners and heathen. They talk, walk, and think like them. Christ promises the world "will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another." Amish selflessly share all things in common (Hutterites) and pursue godliness rather than gain.
Here are some things that the Amish believe which means they have no eternal security and are working to get to heaven. Perhaps you didn't know this. " Amish beliefs that are not shared by most Evangelicals: Salvation: Knowledge of one's salvation: For Evangelicals and other conservative Protestants, salvation is an unmistakable experience which happens when one trusts Jesus. Amish are different. They don't believe that anyone is guaranteed salvation as a result of a conversion experience, baptism, joining the church, etc. "...they would consider it arrogant or prideful to claim certainty of salvation." 2 The Amish believe that God carefully weighs the individual's total lifetime record of obedience to the church and then decides whether the person's eternal destiny will be the reward of Heaven or the punishment in Hell. If a person is baptized into the Amish church and later leaves the church or is excommunicated, they have no hope of attaining Heaven. As a result, an Amish believer lives their life and dies not knowing if they are saved and will attain Heaven".
They don't sound much different than catholics or penecostal charismatics!