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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  10/2/2014
WEDNESDAY, AUG 15, 2007  |  288 comments
Catholics and Protestants map out ethical conversion code
Dozens of theologians from a wide range of Christian traditions recently gathered to map a common religious conversion code that would both affirm religious freedom yet dissuade unethical means of conversion.

The joint Vatican-World Council of Churches (WCC) consultation convened some 30 Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, Pentecostal and Evangelical theologians and church representatives in Toulouse, France, this past week for the high-level meeting entitled “Towards An Ethical Approach to Conversion: Christian Witness in a Multi-Religious World.”

It was the first time Evangelicals and Pentecostals were represented at the consultation since the first meeting was held last year. ...


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· Page 1 ·  Found: 288 user comment(s)
News Item9/5/07 2:28 PM
savedbygrace | Harrisburg, PA  Find all comments by savedbygrace
SB,

Brother, keep your eyes fixed on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith.

PSALM 135:6

288

News Item9/5/07 1:50 PM
Abigail | Oregon  Find all comments by Abigail
SB

I will miss you and your good comments. Although we did not always agree, you were always courteous and respectful, not lording a superior attitude over others.

Thank you for your prayers. We all, (especially me) need as much prayer as we can get.

I pray that the Lord blesses you and leads you in paths of righteousness for His namesake.

In the love of Jesus Christ our Lord,
Abigail

287

News Item9/5/07 1:05 PM
SB  Find all comments by SB
I would like to say goodbye to all on this forum. I will no longer visit or post here. There is very little edifying and exhorting, but much argueing, name calling, division, and confusion. I started posting here simply because I saw a comment being made by a Roman Catholic defending their church. I being a former catholic, wishing to point them toward the truth, responded to their comments hoping that they might see the Truth of the Scripture and be saved from false religion as I was.
I soon found myself being a part of the same argumentive, name calling spirit that is prevalent on this forum, and I do not want to continue in it.
Good Bye, and I will continue to pray for you all.
286

News Item9/5/07 11:40 AM
RV | Kenosha  Find all comments by RV
Abigail
You wrote
We do not know what we will be called upon to endure, but by faith in Christ Jesus, He will sustain me by His Spirit to endure and receive a crown of life.

AMEN!And we can be eternally secure knowing that.

285

News Item9/4/07 9:37 PM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Protected NameFind all comments by Michael Hranek
AntiVaticanistAmerican from U.S.A.

I apologize for taking so long to post back regarding your comment to me. Thanks. And I appreciate the reminder if we break one of the 10 Commandments we've broken them all.

284

News Item9/4/07 5:26 PM
Abigail | Oregon  Find all comments by Abigail
RV

Your Post
"OK Abigail
I have a simple question for you.
Can you say with certainty that if you knew you were going to die in 20 years from now that you would go to heaven?
Its either yes or no."
_______

Paul said, "If by any means I MIGHT ATTAIN UNTO THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD; Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus." (Phi 3:11-12)

"Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus." (Phi 3:13-14)

"Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days; BE THOU FAITHFUL UNTO DEATH, AND I WILL GIVE THEE A CROWN OF LIFE." (Rev 2:10)

We do not know what we will be called upon to endure, but by faith in Christ Jesus, He will sustain me by His Spirit to endure and receive a crown of life.

In the love of Jesus Christ our Lord
Abigail

283

News Item9/4/07 5:05 PM
RV | Kenosha  Find all comments by RV
OK Abigail
I have a simple question for you.

Can you say with certainty that if you knew you were going to die in 20 years from now that you would go to heaven?

Its either yes or no.

282

News Item9/4/07 3:26 PM
Abigail | Oregon  Find all comments by Abigail
RV

Your Post
"You have everlasting life - present tense. How long is everlasting? Does that mean everlasting as long as you don't become unfaithful? Don't you think that God would have said that if that is what He meant? When you read the scripture, don't add to it or take away."
________

You take one or two verses in the Word of God and make a doctrine disregarding any other thing that is stated about the subject. You are the one that is adding or taking away from the Word of God. There are many Scriptures—you fail to receive them.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, NOT WILLING THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH, BUT THAT ALL SHOULD COME TO RPENTANCE.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Hearing His word is to act on His word and believing is more than an intellectual assent to Jesus Christ and His Gospel. Hearing and believing is to conform one's life to His teachings by the power of the Holy Ghost that He implants within the penitent soul.

In the love of Jesus Christ
Abigail

281

News Item9/4/07 2:43 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Ladies and Gentlemen, may I suggest that you look at, "Calvinism & Arminianism"

The Roman Catholic Church is the most Arminian church of the lot.

"Catholic Created, Devil Driven, Man Maintained"

http://www.ianpaisley.org/article.asp?ArtKey=error

280

News Item9/4/07 2:20 PM
RV | Kenosha  Find all comments by RV
Abigail

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

You have everlasting life - present tense. How long is everlasting? Does that mean everlasting as long as you don't become unfaithful? Don't you think that God would have said that if that is what He meant? When you read the scripture, don't add to it or take away. Are you that vain that you would put words in God's mouth? It says you have already "passed from death unto life," past tense! That is irreversible. You will not go to hell once you are born again.

And you still have not answered the question Where in the Bible does it tell us how we get it back should we lose it. Nor does it say how much sin it takes to lose it. If we could lose it how was it ever free to us? Would not a loving God address these questions.

Love in Christ
Rick

279

News Item9/4/07 1:56 PM
Abigail | Oregon  Find all comments by Abigail
Savedbygrace

Your post
You believe that a person can lose his salvation according to Heb.6:6, "falling away", correct?
Therefore according to your view and according to the context it is IMPOSSIBLE for this person to REPENT and be born again, again. They would be in effect bringing the perfect propitiation of Jesus Christ sacrificial atonement on the cross to open shame and ridicule."

I know I am forgiven because I have confessed and repented according to the Scripture and the Lord promised to cleanse from all unrighteousness. (I John 1:9)

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because THEY RECEIVED NOT THE LOVE OF THE TRUTH, THAT THEY MIGHT BE SAVED.

11 And for this cause GOD SHALL SEND THEM STRONG DELUSION, THAT THEY SHOULD BELIEVE A LIE:

12 That they ALL MIGHT BE DAMNED WHO BELIEVED NOT THE TRUTH, BUT HAD PLEASURE IN UNRIGHETOUSNESS.

The great "falling away" is present in the churches of our day. People have pleasure in unrighteousness and will not receive the truth because repentance is inconvenient. They love sin and refuse to turn from it.

278

News Item9/4/07 1:13 PM
savedbygrace | Harrisburg, PA  Find all comments by savedbygrace
Abagail,

You believe that a person can lose his salvation according to Heb.6:6, "falling away", correct?
Therefore according to your view and according to the context it is IMPOSSIBLE for this person to REPENT and be born again, again. They would be in effect bringing the perfect propitiation of Jesus Christ sacrificial atonement on the cross to open shame and ridicule.
So, according to your theology, how do you know if you lost your salvation or not when you sinned and used anothers pen name? And if you did you therefore cannot again repent and be born again, again because you would be saying that Jesus death was NOT ENOUGH!

277

News Item9/3/07 11:57 PM
Obvious Truth  Find all comments by Obvious Truth
Mlc, Jesus is the good shepherd, cares for his sheep, and went looking for the lost sheep and found it. He will not allow us to be tempted past that which we are able, but will make a way of escape, etcetera.

But it's still our choice. We are not robots, and our faith is tried and tested, which is why we're here in the first place, why we have a Bible, and why there is such a thing as Heaven and Hell.

It's a big Bible, more than just John 3:16, needs to be harmonized, and we need to study all of it to make ourselves "wise unto salvation."

The Parable of the Sower teaches very plainly that it is possible to lose one's salvation. The third example especially was once fruitful but BECAME unfruitful, received no rewards for any former fruit, so we can assume went to Hell since the fourth example in the Parable of the Sower all received rewards for their fruit. The only reason not to receive a reward for fruit is that one doesn't end up in Heaven because they dried up as number three from deceitfulness of riches and/or the cares of this life.

Have you ever checked out Dan Corner's website on-line?

276

News Item9/3/07 11:55 PM
Lurker | USA  Find all comments by Lurker
John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me **I should lose nothing**, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Sounds certain to me for I believe He is able in spite of me.

It can also be concluded from this verse that only the fertile soil in the sown field was given to the Son for that which received the Word in poor soil and stony places withered bearing thorns and briars instead whose end is to be burned.

The Hebrews 6 passage is properly interpreted in light of the parable of the wheat and tares. Those who partook and tasted of the heavenly gifts were not sealed with the Holy Spirit nor were they saved because the seedbed of their hearts was not prepared (regenerated) by God.

275

News Item9/3/07 11:50 PM
MIc | Kyoto, Japan  Contact via emailFind all comments by MIc
Hi O.T.,
I appreciate your reading the Bible, but I am not repeating propaganda you claim I have heard. It is true Bible teaching that God keeps those he saves. I have read it throughout the Bible, and most conservative Bible exegetes also come to the same conclusion. Many on Sermon Audio also teach the security of the believer. It is not one example about Solomon, or this instance, or a what if, or that certain verse, etc. It is just the overall teaching of the Bible (cf. John 10 and Romans 8 and other passages and thorough study of them. If you believe differently, at least you are going to the Bible. I would hope that you agree in the end, but some things disagreed on will just have to wait until heaven to clear up. I don't say that all Christians agree on the security of the believer, but there is a peace which I and others have had, and it is from the Holy Spirit and God's word. It is in humility and thankfulness that I state my opinion. As for the examples of Hymaneus and Alexander and other apostates, and as for Jesus' warnings you referred to, they are certainly in the Bible and belong there. It(those examples of those not secure in Christ) still does not take away from the security and thankfulness of those who have received eternal life from our Lord and rest in it.
274

News Item9/3/07 11:49 PM
Abigail | Oregon  Find all comments by Abigail
Savedbygrace

Your Post
"Correct me if I am wrong but I believe you have stated consistently that you believe that a genuine believer can lose his salvation. You consequently interpret Hebrews 6:6 "fall away" to mean as much. Therefore according to v.6 it is impossible for that person to be born-again again because Christ can be crucified only once, and it was an all-sufficient atonement."

When people have to depend on commentaries for understanding of the word of God—it is because they do not have the Spirit of truth that leads and guides in all truth.

"Falling away" means a person renounces truth and turns to lies or lives in disobedience until his/her conscience is seared with a hot iron—"Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron" (1Ti 4:2) Nor does repentance constitute being reborn again and again.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life. (Rev 21:27)

In t

273

News Item9/3/07 11:15 PM
SB  Find all comments by SB
savedbygrace,
Amen!! AMEN!! Amen!!
272

News Item9/3/07 11:11 PM
Obvious Truth  Find all comments by Obvious Truth
Mlc, you are repeating propaganda you have heard. This is not what the Bible teaches. Nobody able to snatch you out of God's hand doesn't mean you can't fall away or be led away of your own if you love lies and heresies more than truth, wilt under persecution, or become distracted by riches or the cares of this life.

Have you ever read the Parable of the Sower?

Solomon died in total rebellion to God and went to Hell, and so did Saul, and Judas, the foolish widows, the five foolish virgins, Demas, Hymaneus and Alexander. If it wasn't possible to fall away, the word wouldn't be in the Bible, would it (ie apostasy).

Jesus taught a lot about Heaven and Hell, how to get to Heaven and avoid Hell, and if Jesus cared enough to come to earth and walk among us, to teach and speak to us in his own words directly, not through the mouths of prophets but by his own mouth, should we not listen to those words?

Jesus taught that the lazy servant and the backslidden servant went to Hell, and that those who do not abide in the vine will wither and be broken off.

271

News Item9/3/07 11:04 PM
MIc | Kyoto, Japan  Contact via emailFind all comments by MIc
O.T.,
Once a person is saved, the Lord Jesus Christ keeps him forever. The truly saved person can never be lost. No one can snatch them out of the saving hand of the Lord. It is a good point, however, that there is balanced truth in that the Lord knows those who are his, and, whoever confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness. If those who are lost are warned to repent and believe in Jesus for salvation, does it not make sense that the apostles wrote to those who have believed in Christ for salvation to turn away from sin as well? I know of no one who does not struggle against sin, evil, and shameful ways of life that were characteristic of the old way of life before by grace they came to Christ for salvation. So eternal life is just that - eternal . No believer will wake up in hell, snapping their fingers and saying "DOH !" as if such great a salvation was lost on either whim or bitterness of soul at a sinful time of life. God is much more complete than the world gives him credit for. He is a Savior that keeps the Christian for all eternity.
270

News Item9/3/07 10:39 PM
Obvious Truth | Words in Red and all the rest  Find all comments by Obvious Truth
savedbygrace, the early church debated whether one could regain salvation after losing it. They did not doubt salvation could be lost.

When we harmonize the scripture, we see plainly that certain sins will keep people out of Heaven, period. Murder and adultery were an automatic ticket to Hell for David; yet we read that David was restored. Same with Peter, who denied the Lord three times. So we know that Peter's salvation was at least in great jeopardy for a time.

We don't know how long a person has to repent before they dry up completely and are broken off. The prodigal son was in unrepentant riotous living for a year or more and David unrepentant of murder and adultery for perhaps a year, before he repented. Were they lost during that time and later restored, or just drying up slowly?

We also know from Jesus' teaching of the backslidden servant that this servant was faced with judgment unexpectedly, that he had no time to repent and get right, and he went to Hell.

You don't have to know all the answers to know that we must work out our own salvation with fear and trembling, that OSAS is a lie, and that anybody who believes OSAS is a total fool, as the "foolish virgins" whose lamps had gone dry and ran out of time to get right.

269
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