The IRS believes Spirit One and Pastor Holick tried to influence voters by sending emails, posting online articles, and using the church's outdoor marquee to denounce Gov. Kathleen Sebelius and Attorney General Paul Morrison before last November's election. Holick, a staunch conservative, has long spoken out against issues like abortion and homosexuality. He says Sebelius and Morrison accepted blood money in the last election from Wichita abortion provider Dr. George Tiller. Holick and members of his church have also attended rallies calling for the prosecution of Tiller, and have met on several occasions with former Attorney General Phill Kline....
It has been documented that all of our Founding Fathers were Bible-believing Christians, except for perhaps Ben Franklin(definitely not a theist, as B. Franklin was the one who suggested for prayer during the precedings) and T. Jefferson(maybe a unitarian). I have copies of early political sermons and that continues up to today by some Godly pastors(Dr. J.Kennedy, for example). I do believe that pastors must concentrate on the gospel and be careful not to preach politics but at the same time not to be timid in regards to state interference. This site does not allow for S. Rutherford(Lex Rex) and other histories but I think the foundation of our nation was "definitely Christians". Patrick Henry, whose mother used to ride him 3 or more hours in a coach to hear the famous Samuel Davies preach, and had him take notes on the return trip said that our nation was not founded by religionists but by "CHRISTIANS"!
The problem concerning church state relations could be resolved by merely reading the First amendment to the constitution and answering the following questions 1. Who is congress? The house and senate. 2. What does â€śNO LAWâ€™ mean? It means not any bill passed by the congress and signed by the president, including Lyndon Johnsonâ€™s 501 c (3) law. 3. What does â€ś respectingâ€ť mean? giving preference to 4. What is â€śan establishment of religionâ€ť. One of the established state supported churches which existed at the time and until the mid 1800â€™s. The same prohibition exists against Congress abridging free speech, including that from the pulpit by a pastor. Churches are tax exempt regardless of whether they are organized as a 501 c(3) corporation. They are tax immune because they are a separate sphere of government. Americans can have free speech as protected by the constitution or political correctness but not both. â€śCapâ€ť Pooser, Major, USAF, (Ret.)
The Reformers had no such sentiments as the Christians today. They were not indifferent to wickedness in society, politics or law. They rightly saw their duty before God to Reform ALL areas of life. This is why they were hunted down and burned alive!
You did not see them shrinking into their churches waiting for the "Rapture"; rather they were pursuing "Refomation without tarrying for any"!
Join Knox especially understood what most Christians don't get or won't get: That Jesus Christ has been given ALL authority in heaven and on earth; and therefore, ALL kings , princes, presidents, congressmen, bureaucrats, judges, etc., must rule ONLY according to the Law of God.
Knox taught that rulers are under Covenant to do so and to protect the Church and true worship and doctrine. If they fail or refuse to do so, and instead pursecute the Church, they have breached the Covenant and their authority is invalid.
At that point all Christian men are obligated to overthrow them at replace them with faithful rulers.
Thomas Jefferson understood this when he said, "Rebellion to tyrants is Obedience to God!".
For better understanding of Knox and the Covenanters, Listen :
Today in America we have "ReLiGiOn" that has run amuck in their GREAT DISCONNECT from the affairs of this Nation -- they have turned over their voices for 501c3 status and by so doing they have allowed these "CRETINS" in DC [and in local government] to set up camp
CHANGES MUT BE MADE !!!
SO MANY of these individuals in DC have been there FAR TOO LONG and have established connections with Agents of Special Interests (DRUG COMPANIES Just To Name One [*it's a long list*]) that in NO WISE PROFIT America and Her citizenry
"We" are being SOLD OUT by our "RePrEsEnTaTiVeS" FOR *their own* PERSONAL GAIN !!! - Suitors are promising them High Paying Jobs later and PAYOFFS *NOW* FOR The Implementation of Faverable Attention TO THEIR CAUSE
IF "We" DON'T WAKE UP, STAND UP And SPEAK OUT AS ONE they will be our DOWNFALL
THERE MUST BE AN ***INVESTIGATION*** Of Our *SeRvAnTs(???)* in DC
You can't drive a car without your hands ON THE WHEEL because sooner or later you will come to a curve...
PeRvErTeD ReLiGiOn took their hands OFF THE WHEEL of This Nation and have missed the curve LONG AGO !!!
PS: If you take a good long look at these Candidates and what they StAnD FoR, NONE of them are Presidential Material -- that is, IF "We" WANT RIGHTEOUSNESS TO PREVAIL !!!
"many of our Founding Fathers rather use ancient Rome and Greece as a model and not England of the 17th century"
Did they? Bear in mind that colonial representative assemblies were established well before the Founders were born or "Enlightenment" philosophy sank in; the Virginia House of Burgesses being the first in 1619. Then there was the English Puritan constitutional republic. It is absurd to think this experience was of no account to them, being much more immediate than that of the ancient histories. Better to look at medieval Florence or Geneva for a more direct ancestor of classical republicanism.
And not until the late 18th & early 19th centuries were colonial State churches disestablished, so they obviously emulated England here. Actually I don't know why you brought this up.
Well, Neil, your comment before this very last one was very good, however, many of our Founding Fathers rather use ancient Rome and Greece as a model and not England of the 17th century. The state church of England has been a poor model ever since its inception and of course the Roman one was to be treated like the plague that it is.
Oh, to keep you fellows informed of what that other Wichita church has been doing. They protested at a funeral in Bellevue Nebraska, a serviceman who was the father of five, and one of the children was stumping on the American flag. The mother was arrested for contributing to the delinquency of a minor. Now that was a good day's work for a Nebraska peace officer!
"The Purpose of the Local Church and Community Issues"
Didn't Christ say "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and RENDER UNTO GOD..." ??? --- But unlike Rome ours is a Government that derives its Just Powers FROM THE CONSENT Of THE PEOPLE !!! -- THE PROBLEM IS, the people have checked out...
Today men have been SO DUMBED DOWN that they have positioned themselves in some sort of COMPARTMENTALIZED RELIGION...
I have had exchanges with Neil about OUR TRUE HISTORY ------ he and those who are like minded ARE PROOF AS TO WHY America IS FAILING...
We as a people Have FORGOTTEN OUR TRUE HISTORY !!! Yes, we have forgotten who we are and we have FORGOTTEN WHO GOD IS !!!
People like Neil just can't seem to connect the dots between The Declaration of Independence, The Constitution and the views of the Founding Fathers and The Heart With Which They Undertook This Great Experiment. (*NOT TO MENTION "The Mayflower Compact"...*)
So many have believed all these LIES --- I guess if they were to pisz on your heads and tell you it is raining you would believe that TOO --- well, that's what your RePrEsEnTaTiVeS in DC have been doing...
NOTHING WORSE THAN a spineless generation who have lost THE WAY and will not HEAR !!!
JUST PITIFUL !!!
We NEED ***TRUTH*** **NOW** !!! -- but men like LIES MORE
I agree with anonymous. That many Founders commended Christianity (or more generically, "religion") reflected their pragmatic concern with public virtue, w/o which a republic could not function. But it is not necessarily indicative of evangelical belief!
Even classical pagans could agree that religion is vital to public life, though they meant something very different from Christianity, which was perversely labeled "atheism" during the Roman era because they refused to acknowledge the Imperial cult.
Our (current-day) money doesn't have anything to do with the founders. Neil's on target. Although I'd say you can't just consider the Constitution, but the Declaration and the Articles of the Confederation--both of which do make it clear that the philosophy which undergirds our notion of law includes elements from Christian cultural thinking. Our republic was secular but NOT secularIST, if that distinction makes sense. The founders more than anything were trying to pattern the republic after Republican Rome, which is why they were all in love with Cato and Cicero (who fought against the turn to dictatorial empire in Rome) not to mention Athens' lawgiver Solon. They saw Britain as usurping in the fashion of the imperialization of Rome and associated themselves with the greatness of the Republic in Rome.
It's true their values were deeply influenced by Christian philosophical notions, but every bit as much by Greco-Roman values. It's absurd to say that the Republic was anti-Christian and it's equally absurd to say it was founded as a Christian Republic. Their interest was law and civic virtues.
Jim, you fall prey to the same fallacious reasoning that KK does. The private beliefs of certain founders has nothing to do with the fact that no mention is made either of YHWH or of freemasonry in the US Const. The Great Seal (like the friezes on various public buildings), however suggestive the art may be, is not public law, it is symbology which is inherently ambiguous unless accompanied with declarative language.
KK, thank God, many of our Founding Fathers weren't Christian. The United States is a Masonic Republic. George Washington being one of most famous Masons of the Founding Father. You don't have the Masonic pyramid and the all seeing eye on the dollar bill for nothing you know!
Individuals in our country have plenty of rights to protest all they want to. You notice the Apostle Paul, did not go around trying to reform the Roman Empire. "Rendering To Caesar"
This exposes the hole in the wall of the so called "separation of Church and state." But then, the wall is actually a gate that stops the Church from affecting the state, but not the state from harassing a Church. If only this church would embrace the DNC, the politicos can run directly from the pulpit without a whimper from the IRS.
If The Early Church And Our Founding Fathers would have been as "STUPID" and "LAME" as The Church and Our elected Public Servants have become today This Republic Would Have NEVER BEEN BIRTHED !!!
There is NOTHING MORE PATHETIC than a bunch of BLIND BIBLICALLY PERVERTED people who have seemingly ABANDONED their DUTY "FOR GOD AND Country" -- AS IF THERE IS A DIVIDING LINE THAT EXISTS Between The Two -- THIS IS THE REASON This Nation Has Become THE AUTHOR OF MURDER (Abortion) AND EVERY ABOMINABLE tHiNg...
You do know that years ago Pastors ALWAYS GAVE Election Sermons -- they pointed out the candidates *BY NAME* AND They ADDRESSED **THE ISSUES OF THE DAY** ???
What is taking place today IS BEYOND PERVERSION -- THIS IS A SiCk Generation
How is it that men have let themselve BE SO DUMBED DOWN ??? Listening to TOO MANY LIES !!!
Thomas Jefferson said:
If [GOD] has made it a law in the nature of man to pursue his own happiness, HE has left him free in THE CHOICE of place as well as mode, and we may safely call on the whole body of English jurists to produce the map on which nature has traced for each individual the geographical line which she forbids him to cross in pursuit of happiness.
"We" Have Crossed THE FORBIDDEN LINE and are too stupid to SEE IT
Jim Lincoln: I don't know Pastor Holick at all. But no, he is not the guy who does the unChristian protests. That's Fred Phelps.
And yes, pastors are individuals, and they absolutely have a right to a political opinion just like everyone else. It should not affect tax exempt status.
That being said, I am very non-political.
KK: I'm not being defeatist. I do, however, realize that we live in a fallen world. We will not make things better through political reform or IRS reform. Only the Holy Spirit can change the hearts of men, and that is the gospel we preach, "Christ and Him crucified," not political reform. The Kingdom of God is bigger than America, and it will stand even if America falls. We do need to unite, but the only thing I want to be united under is the banner of Jesus Christ.
May the Lord continue to bless this country as he has been doing since the beginning of it.
You said: I'm just sick and tired of the Liberal double standards!! When will it ever end. (Not until Jesus comes back!)
This is the defeatist attitude that Christians have adopted due to Preachers **FAILING** TO SPEAK OUT AGAINST This Hellish Lie that *our* Representetives have initiated under the guise of "Seperation of Church and State"
They are *our* Public Servants ???
I DON'T THINK SO --- they DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS !!!
"We The People" NEED TO ***WAKE UP*** !!!
Our Government Deriving Its Just Powers FROM THE CONSENT OF ***THE GOVERNED*** And It Is Time For Us ALL TO COME TOGETHER ***WITH ONE VOICE*** AND MAKE IT *KNOWN* THAT "WE" ***HAVE HAD ENOUGH*** OF *their* HELL-BENT FOOLISHNESS !!!
IT IS TIME TO **PUT AN END** TO this IRS treat!!! They cling to this Law with such vigor BECAUSE Without It they ARE IN DANGER OF ***BEING FOUND OUT*** as the fools that they really are (*leading this Nation to RUINATION*)
That was one of Hitler's BIG TRICKS --- TYRANNICALLY silencing the Church
"We" Have A Government That IS OUT OF CONTROL
IT'S TIME TO TURN **this mess** AROUND !!!
IT'S TIME FOR CHANGE --- "FOR GOD AND Country" !!!
**EVERYONE** ALL OVER America ***MUST STAND TOGETHER*** ***WITH ONE VOICE***!!!
So Pastor Holick is being investigated by the IRS for his opposition to Democrats' pet politically correct issues. Do you think we'll see Rev. Leah Daughtry's church, House of the Lord Pentecostal Church in Washington, D.C., being investigated? Don't count on it!! And she is being employed by the DNC! How's that for conflict of interest? Actually, I think both pastors should be left alone about their political dealings. I'm just sick and tired of the Liberal double standards!! When will it ever end. (Not until Jesus comes back!)