Teen who wants to wear anti-gay T-shirt takes battle to court
A Neuqua Valley High senior has gone to federal court seeking the right to wear an anti-gay T-shirt to school next month on the day after a national event in support of gays is scheduled in schools.
Heidi Zamecnik, 17, is asking the court to order her school and Indian Prairie District 204 to allow her to express her anti-gay beliefs on April 19, the day after the 11th annual "Day of Silence'' is scheduled to protest harassment of gays in schools.
According to the Web site www.dayofsilence.org,students and teachers across the country plan to observe the day in silence "to echo'' the silence that gay students face all the time....
Anna,no,not clear.Does that mean any reference to an OT passage is null and void as well?Remember Psalm 130:1?Do you ever use Psalm 23 or "My Word shall not return unto me void"? You need to be careful making a statement like that unless you are going to be consistent."Such actions have never led a sinner to repentance but only served to antagonise resulting in eye for an eye sordid legal battles".Are you saying that you know the salvation experience of every saved person?How do you know that A stand like this one hasn't brought about a conversation that has led to someone's salvation?Generalities and presuppositions will get you nowhere."You mentioned the stoning of Stephen cbc -well neither you nor she of the t-shirt has much to fear on this score do you?"You condemn her for wearing the shirt and me for agreeing.Looks like the stones are already flying Verse16-Thank you for responding to the verse.You are correct in that it is the Psalmist speaking.However, part of verse 16 can also be translated,"who will rise up,for me, to make war with the evildoers?''We are called in scripture to expose, stand against,and hate sin.Just because there is no Bible verse on this girls shirt doesn't mean she is wrong.Again, it could be used as a door opener to share the gospel.
Morning cbc. I havent responded because I find it an absurd question it is an OT verse and I am a NT Christian clear? You yourself have said confronting sin is all over the bible so why pick this particular verse which is to be seen in its time?
THis is all about the methods of confronting sin. WHERE have I in any post disagreed with confronting sin?
YOU support she of the t-shirt and I dont ..simple---clear? How does wearing a t-shirt that states "be happy not gay# represent Christianity and confronts sin? Anyone can wear such a non christian could too! Such actions have never led a sinner to repentance but only served to antagonise resulting in eye for an eye sordid legal battles.
You mentioned the stoning of Stephen cbc -well neither you nor she of the t-shirt has much to fear on this score do you? Well? millions of brethren throughout the world DO face martyrdom including missionary friends of mine THEY are the fearless ones..Michael, also take note.And I assure you , they would never confront sin with t-shirts and lawsuits as they also believe this brings shame to Christ. support who you will and leave me to support who I will clear?
Sinner,Anna,still no response to Psalm 94:16.Sinner,then are you saying,since God does not "mark iniquities" that everyone is saved?I'm not saved because doesn't mark them,but because "the handwriting of ordinances (the marking of iniquity) that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross" (Col. 2:14).I am saved because Jesus took my sin and paid the price for it.NOW God chooses to remember it no more.However,every individual who rejects Christ will have plenty of evidence against them because their sin will be held out against them as justification for their eternal punishment.Your verse isn't saying that God doesn't mark sin,it is saying,and you have to tie it in with verse 4,that if we were to stand before Him completely as we are,we could not stand,BUT He has made a way of forgiveness!Amen!Thank you Jesus!
cbcpreacher posted "God has,in fact,marked iniquity.This is the very reason why people go to hell.If you read verse 4 you will see that word,"forgiveness".This is when God ceases to mark iniquity because it has been placed on the tally that Jesus carried on the cross."
But the verse states "3 If thou, LORD, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand?"
The Lord does *NOT* "mark iniquites"
Proof cbcpreacher has been saved!!!
Point being Jesus came to save sinners - not the righteous.
cbcpreacher Rom 7:24 "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?"
Dont forget the 'before' and 'after' status, and God's work in both.
Very good point,Michael.And by the way,good to hear from you.Sorry I didn't get that in on my last post,but I didn't realize you had written.What you are saying is absolutely true,especially for those of us who are preachers.It's easy to pick a favorite sin to blast or to go along with what other preachers are doing.And you're also right about the moral convert thing.As a Baptist pastor I see that type of thing all to often.We would be much better off if we would stay closer to the Word of God and thought less of our own opinions.Again,very hard to do as a preacher.I do have to add that a good part of what I say has to do with a real disgust that I have developed for the cultural christianity we see in America.This disgust is for a number of reasons:1)This type of christianity dishonors our Lord by bringing Him down to our level.We want Him to be our "buddy",not our Lord and it is almost sacreligious how low it has gone;and2)a lot of people are being duped into thinking they are ok with God when,in fact,they are not.That makes me both sad and angry.The gospel often preached to sinners in America is nothing more than self-help.It's like giving aspirin to a cancer patient.It may make them feel better for the moment,but they are still going to die,just like a duped sinner.
Allow me to deepen my comment if I may. Cerainly homosexuality is an abomination and we shouldn't silently bow down before their threatenings.
But in speaking out against sin the 10 Commandments gives us a frame work, if we can use the words, that touches the conscience of men that what they do is directly in disobedience to God, not just a 'hot button sin of the moment'.
Personally I like using the 10 Commandments is witnessing and in preaching as if we only preach on the hated sin of the day we neglect the larger issue that men are wretchedly wicked and fallen and guilty before God "on all accounts". It is my personal opinion that if a homosexual is convicted by the 10 Commandment that he or she is a hell deserving sinner and repents and surrenders to Jesus Christ believing in Him to save them from their sins one of the sins they He will save them from in the process is their homosexuality. On the other hand if we only preach against drinking or drugs or rock music etc. etc. we may have moral converts who don't do the bad things anymore but are every bit as lost as they where.
Anna,still no response to Psalm 94:16,nor to the fact that Paul,Jesus,and others were confrontational."'obliterating my point and his 'rant'..these were angry words cbc and uncalled for."These were not angry words, nor uncalled for.The attitude toward confronting sin that both of you have shown is unbiblical and EXACTLY why the world AND the church are in the condition that they are in.Also,I NEVER said that the Holy Spirit didn't convict of sin.My point is that most people,even "christians"will ignore sin unless someone points it out to them.This was the reason that the Law was given,and should still be used in soul winning today.A sinner will not know he is a sinner until someone tells him.That's why there are so many "goats"who think they are sheep.They have been "saved",the problem is they don't know WHAT they've been saved from because the sin part,if touched on at all,is in a cursory manner.So when you pasted,"I will choose to obey scripture than to take the WORLDLY commentary on christianity to "leave it to the Holy Spirit" you missed the WORLDLY part.This is the christians way of copping out on having to confront sin.Should we leave it up to the Spirit to give them the gospel too?We have a responsibility to OPEN OUR MOUTHS.Even if it means becoming a martyr like Steven.
It will certainly not be men pleasing compromisers nor the cowardly. Which also begs some thought as Revelation 22:8 states
"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."
Hasn't Jesus told us that if we deny Him before men that He will deny us before the Father?
What a sobbering thought the fearful are listed along with the abominable, murderers, whoremongers, sorcerers and LIARS.
Perhaps as we pray for Revival we ought to weep and cry out to God for the sinful silence of so many who profess to be Christians, especially how compromise and cowardice are promoted as being so noble in "popular evangelicalims" and sadly into many of churches that self-proclaim to be Bible believing.
And we will need the Lord's wisdom and guidance in this as there is so much that is wicked and evil in our time.
CBC You are not reading what I wrote. Nowhere did I say that we must not speak out against sin. I said
" CBC, Sin is sin is sin. Can you imagine Jesus and/or the apostles wearing similar garments ? Preaching the good news is indeed what is required of us. We leave the rest to the Holy Spirit who convicts the sinner. If anyone asks us we must of course stand up for our faith and speak out against this sin when necessary, but we are not to agitate, in fact by using the same tactics the enemy uses "
I stand by this. You disagreed..and said "That is why we are where we are. I will choose to obey scripture than to take the worldly commentary on christianity to "leave it to the Holy Spirit". Read your Bible. It confronts sin repeatedly. We need to be obedient to God, not politically correct." I prefer indeed to trust in the power of the Holy Spirit and you deny this very power in your own words.
You spoke to a believer about 'obliterating my point and his 'rant'..these were angry words cbc and uncalled for. Of course Jesus confronted the woman at the well, but look at the difference Firstly the woman wanted to hide her sin-and Jesus did not use agressive carnal tactics or lawsuits
Only the Holy Spirit can truly convict a human heart, not a worldy weapon
I am still waiting for a response to Psalm 94:16 which is painfully clear about what God wants us to do.If anyone can give me some other explanation for what it says,I would be interested in hearing it. Sinner in the flesh,God has,in fact,marked iniquity.This is the very reason why people go to hell.If you read verse 4 you will see that word,"forgiveness".This is when God ceases to mark iniquity because it has been placed on the tally that Jesus carried on the cross. Also,you say we are not to be confrontational with the sinner,but again,as in my last post,was Paul wrong because everywhere he went there was either a riot or revival because he confronted sinners.Jesus confronted sinners.The woman at the well was brought face to face with her sin,the religious leaders were also.Peter was rebuked for his sin.The fact is,Jesus ended up on the cross for being confrontational.He wasn't a namby pamby preacher like a lot of today's "preachers" are.If we got back to that we might see a different kind of "christian" in America,one who is actually born again.
Psalm 130:1 Out of the depths have I cried unto thee, O LORD. 2 Lord, hear my voice: let thine ears be attentive to the voice of my supplications. 3 If thou, LORD, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand?
# This is an interesting statement is it not? If God does "mark iniquities" - Then nobody is saved. Thus conclusion, - God does not "mark iniquities" Preaching then should be Word of God Word of God And Word of God!! NOT Judging the sinner and controversy with them, since they are without truth and understanding. Controversial action will only serve to get their back up.
Psalm 130 cont... 4 But there is forgiveness with thee, that thou mayest be feared. 5 I wait for the LORD, my soul doth wait, and in his word do I hope. 6 My soul waiteth for the Lord more than they that watch for the morning: I say, more than they that watch for the morning. 7 Let Israel hope in the LORD: for with the LORD there is mercy, and with him is plenteous redemption. 8 And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.
Anna, I didn't say the gospel was worldly and "pc".Please, read my post again.I said,"We need to be obedient to God, not politically correct."Also,you wrote,"You prove with every angry and bitter word you spew forth that you dont have a clue what the Gospel is even".They sound like angry and bitter words to me!I did not use the words that you accuse me of.I spoke the truth in love.Unfortunately,there are people who see proclamation of truth that they don't like as "angry and bitter".I do not apologize because what you say is not true."advocate using the methods of the world to accomplish a spiritual awakening but these are the not the way of Jesus and the Apostles which you should know".You did get this right,but at the wrong target.Church growth,CCM,entertainment,compromise;that is what you should be talking about here.Wherever Paul went,there was either riot or revival.He was confrontational.Why do you think they nailed Jesus to a cross?He was confrontational. Mark M.-"I'm with cbc on this one...wow that feels weird."Thank you brother.I'll take that as a compliment
I'm with cbc on this one...wow that feels weird. I don't condone going to school every day with 'guns blazing' about how you feel about the homo deathstyle, but the school forced the girl's hand, as it should every Christian's. The school has this day of silence for the alt deathstylers and remaining silent about it is akin to giving support to it. I have a heart for the homo community because I know how hard it is to fight a sexual sin, but we can't sit by and say it is okay. We should stand by this girl not so much to get her 'anti-gay' shirt in the school, but to get the 'anti-christian/anti-family' gay pride stuff out.
cbc, sorry brother but are you for real? Are you ok man? How can preaching the Gospel be worldly and 'pc'??We are commanded to do so by The Lord Jesus Christ ! You prove with every angry and bitter word you spew forth that you dont have a clue what the Gospel is even, let alone the fruits of The Spirit, otherwise you would realise preaching the Gospel denounces sin! Show me where revival has ever occured through agressive provocative carnal methods.? advocate using the methods of the world to accomplish a spiritual awakening but these are the not the way of Jesus and the Apostles which you should know. What I should do with an OT verse...what I do with all fo them..more to the point its what I do with the NT verses that count under the New covenant. Your pride in the 'blessings' of the US is meaningless. The US was born on the backs of persecuted believers from here from a Europe stained by the blood of martyrs having endured centuries of invasions and inquisitions..and our countries have existed a lot longer than yours..a few hundred years and you are crumbling already! Yes we are all now crumbling as we reap from the sin our nations have sown. Parayer is indeed the only way, but in my experience God only then shows me my sin and not those of others.
2Peter2:20 "For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again"
As Peter here teaches there will always be the tares planted by Satan in the pulpit and the pew. Simply put the churches in all western nations are full of non-Christians, who may hear the Bible preached regularly, but they *CANT* hear the Word of God.
The uncomfortable part of this today is that many of these non-Christians are allowed to speak for the church, as bishops, elders, preachers and pew fillers. Their favorite verses are "the social gospel" - which is NOT what God sends to change the world and convert the sinner.
God is a consuming fire and when He chooses too He can wipe out entire nations and cities. Deut9:3 Understand therefore THIS DAY, that the LORD thy God is he which goeth over BEFORE THEE; as a consuming fire HE shall destroy them, and HE shall bring them down before thy face: so shalt thou drive them out, and destroy them quickly, as the LORD hath said unto thee."
Nothing has changed. Unless changed by God; the heart of man will remain the same-bent on wickedness. You can't legislate morally. Don't confuse physical, economic might with the true spiritual blessings of God. Israel of old had all that America had and more and yet the nation just like America did not know the God of the Bible. Because I believe that God is in control of all things, I also believe that none of his elect will be lost. Of course I don't prefer judgment. If that were the case, where would I be. I certainly deserve it.
A believer, if you're addressing my post, you are woefully blind. America was founded on the principles of the Word of God. If you knew "real" American history, instead of the revised stuff they teach in public schools, you would know that. I am not saying that they were all christians, but God has richly blessed this nation. Therefore, to return to our roots would not be a bad thing, or do you like reading aboout millions of aborted babies, teen suicide, murder, rape, corporate greed, the sodomite agenda, etc. The reason we have gotten here is because we have turned our backs on God. Morality is no longer taught in homes, much less public schools. It isn't even taught in a lot of churches! Accountability of leaders is a joke. The biggest problem lies with the church. We don't pray for our country or its leaders. We don't stand for truth and justice. And to obliterate Anna's point and your rant, we don't even proclaim the gospel. The church in America is playing instead of praying. We are being entertained while the world goes to hell. As kieth Green said, "The world is asleep in the dark, while the church is asleep in the light". We need either a revival or judgment from God's hand. I prefer revival. Obviously, you prefer judgment!
America is and has never been different than any other nation. It didn't suddenly become immoral or ungodly. It has always been such but only on perhaps a lesser scale. Stop trying to make it what it is not. It insults the other nations of the earth that are likewise given over to wickedness.
Anna, what do you do with the verse I gave you? God is looking for those who will defend what is right. He chastised the priests in Israel over and over again for not speaking out against the sins of the people. Take a look at the condition of your own country and tell me that sin shouldn't be confronted. "All that is necessary for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing." That is why we are where we are. I will choose to obey scripture than to take the worldly commentary on christianity to "leave it to the Holy Spirit". Read your Bible. It confronts sin repeatedly. We need to be obedient to God, not politically correct.