BIRMINGHAM, Ala. - The nation's largest Presbyterian group, the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A), opened its national meeting Thursday by electing a Georgia minister to lead the 2.3 million-member denomination.
The Rev. Joan S. Gray will serve as the titular leader and spokeswoman for the church, which will grapple with issues including homosexuality and Mideast peace during the eight-day General Assembly.
In addressing the question of whether to ordain gays, Gray said she was torn between her desire to respect all people and the fact she "can't get my mind" around the idea that homosexuality is part of God's plan.
Gray said she has no specific plan for healing rifts within the church, but said members must "recapture our spiritual energy."...
Marita, thanks for filling us in. If you want to see what a Bible believing, teaching, non-denominational Baptist church has as beliefs just read the statement of faith and the constitution of IHCC.
Hi DB, Thankyou. I'm sure Baptists by such a name exist...seems the names get longer and more complex as the others adopt a reduced and compromised doctrinal stance.
Thanks, Jim. And also when I say here, I would mean my country, Philippines. So it means we don't have an ABC. As far as I know, the Baptists here, be they Independent, Fundamentals, First Baps, Southern, Bible Baps, Conservatives, are still mostly 'conservatives', and not so "liberal"-- to have women as pastors, nor to condone homosexuality, abortion, etc.The differences will just be on modes of governance and style of worship. Unless someone can come and tell me I am wrong in what I know...
msc, I would just like to clarify that when I say "liberal" i just mean in terms of worship--having live bands--which maybe to them it's their way of making a "joyful noise unto the Lord", and having no strict dress codes, and some men donning long hair. That's all. But their doctrines, I don't know of any that I disagree with. God had me saved also through an SBC.
Marita, I think the American Baptist Churches-USA are more "liberal" than the SBC. However, the local American Baptist congregation in which I was baptized seems quite scriptural---they once had a husband-wife pastoral team, but that didn't last long after the wife was found to be verbally abusive to kids in sunday school. Perhaps even in Baptist organizations a lot depends on the local congregation, even if the group seems liberal. I don't know, but that's my guess. I know many denominations are liberal, but some local congregations within those denominations are quite Bible-based.
Thnaks, msc. But here, those leaning on liberality, as I observe, are the SBCs. But I don't think and Im not aware if they have women pastors, unlike the evangelicals here were it is rampant.
Marita, Walt is not affiliated with the PC-USA, so I doubt he'd endorse this. It has little if any thing to do with what kind of government, as I know very well there are many other groups, including Baptists, putting women in such positions. Female ordinations do not respect borders of what kind of goverment churches have whether it's indepedent/congregational, presbyterian or episcopal.
As Yamil( aka ha) always say (If I got it right): That's the way the cookie crumbles...
I have some Questions: Doesn't the Institute have a say with regard to WOMEN not to rule over men? In the same way that wives should submit to their husbands?
Or maybe the lady is still single and is NOT BOUND by God's design in the family (of God)? Naah, doesn't make sense still...
"The Bible makes it clear only men shall be in such leadership positions in the Church." Msc, Thought so too. So Is this the supposedly ideal kind of church government that Walt is affiliated with? And fighting for? Just asking, Walt...
"In addressing the question of whether to ordain gays, Gray said she was torn between her desire to respect all people and the fact she "can't get my mind" around the idea that homosexuality is part of God's plan."
Ok...again, why the confusion? Just read the Bible. It tells you all that you need to know.
As a Presbyterian who needs to be humbled regularly, this photo and story bring me to my knees. Even though I wouldn't be caught dead as a member of the PCUSA I still am, in name only, represented by this shemale in the public sphere. And, infinitely worse, she represents a portion of the visible church to unbelievers. I am at the same time heartbroken and furious.
The final authority is the Scriptures which gets completely ignored. I am shocked that the Presbyterians voted a woman to be in charge. Totally unbiblical. She may be a great leader like "Maggie Thatcher", doesn't mean a thing. Still disobeying God's word.
1st Timothy chapter 2 11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
Ah, the picture with the article is worth a 1,000 words!
To reinforce what Mike said,
1Timothy 2 11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
But Mike Whats wrong with women in charge.? We have a very good example in England, of "Maggie Thatcher" - she was definately the best "MAN" for the job and she was a woman.
Which of course reveals what the men in her party are like today.
As always PC versus the Truth. And Liberalism versus the Scriptural authority of the Lord.
You feel like telling them that the word from Christ is -"Go to hell." As per Matt 7.21-23.
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