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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  3/4/2015
THURSDAY, JUN 15, 2006  |  18 comments
Southern Baptists refuse to back pullout
GREENSBORO, N.C. - There will almost certainly be no Southern Baptist exodus from the nation's public schools — at least for now.

Leaders of the nation's largest Protestant denomination Wednesday refused to support a resolution that would have urged the denomination to form an "exit strategy" for pulling Southern Baptist children from public schools in favor of home schools or private Christian schools.

The proposal, offered by Roger Moran of Troy, Mo., and Texas author Bruce Shortt, came as many of the nation's 16.2 million Southern Baptists are concerned about how classrooms are handling subjects such as homosexuality and "intelligent design."

Instead of putting the exit strategy before delegates to the SBC's annual meeting, the denomination's resolutions committee called on members to "engage the culture of our public school systems" by exerting "godly influence," including standing for ...

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· Page 1 ·  Found: 18 user comment(s)
News Item6/26/06 3:32 PM
[removed by editor]

News Item6/26/06 3:22 PM
You are correct... as I said nothing about the slavery of black people... but slavery per se.

But that's exactly where American's minds are drawn though, when you bring up slavery. It automatically becomes an issue of white against black. And I understand why that is... but that does not negate what God said in the Bible.

Here's a real question: With that kind of logic though, how could Southern Baptists be chareged with segregation from blacks and slavery of blacks at the same time?

And I of course know the answer... but how does it work both ways? It's odd - isn't it?


News Item6/26/06 1:31 PM
Neil | Tucson  
If we grant that segregation is normative & a positive thing, then we must admit that colonial planters violated this by bringing Africans into their households. They should have shipped 'em back and demanded English convicts.

News Item6/26/06 12:50 PM
Where in the Bible is segregation a sin, by the way?

I read in the Book of Acts, chapter 17 verse 26, that even though all nations hath but "one blood" God hath still appointed "BOUNDS" of "habitation." Does that mean that the God of the Bible is an anti-God segregationalist?

And Neil, I'm not picking on you in no means, but if Jim is referring to the sin of owning slaves, where does that put Philemon?

I would suspect that no one, including myself, is half the Christian Philemon was and the Holy Spirit never censured Philemon for owning slaves - so what's the problem?

Could it be... that there are some chiming-in on this panel who would fall under the condemnation spoken of in I Timothy 6:1-5? Could be...

I just don't get the connection between home-schooling and segregation/slavery. There must be some closet racists on this panel or something - because I never even made that connection!

But it is true... there are a lot of bigots - especially bigots against what God said in the Bible.


News Item6/26/06 12:23 PM
Neil | Tucson  
MBL, I think Jim is arguing "guilt by association" - because SOME So. Baptists were presumably segregationists or worse, therefore the SBC must atone by not advocating anything that would detract from legalized school integration, even something wholesome like homeschooling

I expect this sort of logic from public school cultists (and it IS a cult, judging by the fanaticism behind it), not evangelical Christians. But it seems these are overlapping sets.


News Item6/25/06 5:38 PM

I am not a Southern Baptist, so would you please explain what you meant by the SBC: "... realizes it's past unChristian attitude about race and how it reflects on them..."

To what is this a reference?

Thank you.


News Item6/25/06 5:35 PM
Uh... when did homeschooling become a "race" issue? Did I miss something in the article?

I live in a community that is probably 95-99% white and I yet do not want my child taught in a public school - I suppose I am a white supremist against white people!?!?!

Some of you people are very, very strange indeed!


News Item6/25/06 5:16 PM
Jim | Nebraska  
Why, do you think Blacks and others think the SBC has a racist past? Now you can say that it takes Blacks to elect this particular gentlemen, and what they get outweighs any negatives. Gov. George C. Wallace did show all indications he did give up his ideas, I'm not sure Trent Lott has.

The whole article is worth reading. I don't know really what the problem is, the Southern Baptist Convention itself, realizes it's past unChristian attitude about race and how it reflects on them, and of course, they voted against the pull-out of public schools.

Of course individual parents have a right to educate their children. When the largest Protestant group in the country starts supporting the idea of abandoning public schools and remembering their past history, then everyone can make a strong assumption of racism, even if it is true or not.


News Item6/20/06 6:29 PM
Neil | Tucson  
Well said, David.

News Item6/20/06 6:25 PM
David | TX  
Btw, one of the largest groups (racially) beginning to homeschool are blacks. Why? For as many reasons as any other group. My next door neighbors are black & homeschool & I asked them why they chose to do this. They said the main reason was that the state schools just plain stink: they don't educate, they indoctrinate; they favor girls over boys (and they have 3 sons); & the sex (homo) "education" is just plain sick. They also added that the socialization that their kids will recieve is nothing more than peer pressure. How true.
How is it better to "socialize" a child by dividing them up by age & keeping them seperated from different age groups for 40 hours (or more) per week? The only social skills learned here is a herd mentality.
Then there is the non-discipline issue. Teachers are assaulted, kids are raped and beaten, & most goes unreported so the schools don't lose funding.
For those who think their little ones are to be there "witnessing" to others - the sad fact is most evangelicals are the ones that are leaving their faith after being taught to question God, His authority/existence & the absolute validity of science & humanism. The ABC's of state schools today is: Anything BUT Christianity. How can anyone send their precious little kids into that cesspool?!

News Item6/19/06 11:49 PM
david | tx  
'Tis true Neil...JG Machen was co-founder of OPC which is considered a "northern" presbyterian denomination for the most part. They broke away due to the direction the PCUS was going. I have the book your referring to: "Education, Christianity and the State." It's very good! I'd also recommend a book from a Baptist (who was mentioned in the article, Bruce Shortt: "The Harsh Truth of Public Schools." It's especially good for a more up-to-date look at what Machen,Dabney, Clark and others would never dream possible.
My wife and I homeschool because God commands the family, as the ministry of education, to do so in Deut. 6:6-7, Prov. 3, and many others. If we choose to divide this labor to include someone else to help, then I'd ask a trusted friend to help from Church: but only a Christian. Certainly, the pagan seminaries (public schools) is no place for a Christian.

News Item6/19/06 9:43 PM
Neil | Tucson  
David, I think you meant "state free-school" system; "state-free schools" sound great to me! Of course no school is free, it's just a matter of who pays & whose philosophy prevails there.

J. Gresham Machen, a Northern Presby I believe, testified against socialist education in the '20s:


News Item6/19/06 8:27 PM
David | Texas  
Interesting that the term racist is brought up any time a Southern organization is involved. It's petty, uninformed, but a typical example of Northerners bigotry against the South.
The SBC is only the SBC because of the theological differences she had 180 years ago with Northern Baptists (40 yrs before the war). While the northern theologians, in most denominations, were flocking to a unorthodox deist/universalist position; the South was moving to a more orthodox position(hence the term "Bible belt"). Because the South wasn't flocking after Darwin/evolution/humanism: they were scorned for holding up the evolution of man & therefore, backward. After the war some denominations got back together ("United Methodists")while others stayed split or split even further.
I'm a Southern(gasp) Presbyterian & our leading theologians argued against the "state-free school system" knowing that it would generate into intellectual tyranny: which it has. State schools were started by an ardent socialist/deist Horace Mann & his vision has been realized. Children pledge their allegiance (written by F. Bellamy, a national socialist) to something other than Christ, & sing the blasphemous, Battle "Hymn" of the Empire; written by JW Howe, another socialist/deist.

News Item6/16/06 4:12 PM
Neil | Tucson  
I disagree, Jim; there is nothing even *apparently* evil about encouraging parents to train up their children. Racism is a totally independent problem, a red-herring raised by the evil-minded Left looking for any excuse to undermine homeschooling. Let us not appease them.

Mark, thanks for your information.


News Item6/16/06 2:16 PM
Jim | Nebraska  
Well, let me say, Neil, I find your comments very good. I hope that I didn't say that these people want home schooling for racial reasons, however, they should be beyond reproach, much like Caesar's wife, there should be no doubt why the want home schooling and since private academies in the past have been used to support racist practices, the SBC should go out of it's way to show any home school program they support in a big way, should not have the taint of racism.

I would also add public schools have to be kept a level of competancy for white parents who because of funds, time, inclination, training do not want to do home schooling. Home schooling or Christian schools should not be a reason to let public schools to decay any further than they have.


News Item6/15/06 11:29 PM
Mark M | Georgia; USA  Contact via email
For those who don't read every post, I am in a teaching program, and have gone on observations of various classes over the past two years. I purposely went to both Christian and public schools to get some ideas as to where I may want to teach. For the most part I find the lessons are practically the same. The "inner-city" kids I worked with were much rowdier, but by that same token the private school kids were bigger jerks I will point out in Georgia, U.S.A. the public school teachers actually make around ten thousand more dollars than the private school teachers do per year. I haven't decided if the money will be the deciding factor for me, but it stands to reason that public schools should get the better teachers, because they offer the better salary. It is the curriculum and the school boards that probably hinder learning more than anything else.

News Item6/15/06 2:51 PM
Neil | Tucson  
Jim, Ebony magazine had an article commending homeschooling as a reasonable alternative for their readers. One reason cited was as an antidote for subtle racial discrimination by public school teachers; in other words, they have low expectations ("poor black kid, he's had a hard life, let's not push him too hard").

I think it's great that there are groups in the SBC promoting homeschooling, for otherwise, the status quo of public & "Christian" schools (which IMHO aren't all that different in terms of content & peer-oriented social conditioning) will stand unquestioned. Obviously the SBC has no binding authority beyond such recommendations, which is fine w/ me; parents should be free to make such choices. But if certain people impute racism here where none actually exists, that's their problem. I would never advocate mal-educating kids just to keep up appearances for the sake of detractors. Such will always find fault, come what may. Let them complain, and let us do right.


News Item6/15/06 2:01 PM
Jim | Nebraska  
This interesting article brought up two points. I think The Southern Baptist Convention made the right decision on not supporting a mass exodus from public schools. Perhaps not for the reasons they gave. I think it should be up to the individual families where they educate their children. Without guaranteeing that blacks and other races could benefit from home or attendance at Christian schools, it would give the Southern Baptist denomination a racist appearance.

I find their stand on not having leaders using alcohol interesting. Indian Hills Community Church does not let their elders use alcohol either. The leadership makes it very plain that there is no biblical injunction against moderate drinking, though. It is just an example they do not want to set before others.

1Corinthians 8
12 Now, thus sinning against the brethren, and wounding their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
1Corinthians 10
31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatever ye do, do all things to God's glory.
32 Give no occasion to stumbling, whether to Jews, or Greeks, or the assembly of God.
33 Even as *I* also please all in all things; not seeking my own profit, but that of the many, that they may be saved.

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