Kirkpatrick leads Reformed group in Vatican reconciliation talks
GENEVA - Pope Benedict XVI said dialogue with the World Alliance of Reformed Churches (WARC) is healing "tragic divisions" between Christians dating from the 16th-century Protestant Reformation.
The Pope spoke on Jan. 7 after a meeting with a delegation of the alliance led by its president, the Rev. Clifton Kirkpatrick, stated clerk of the Presbyterian Church (USA).
"I pray that our meeting today will itself bear fruit in a renewed commitment to work for the unity of all Christians," said Benedict, who said after his election in April that promoting Christian unity would be his "primary task."
WARC has more than 200 Congregational, Presbyterian, Reformed and United churches that trace their origins to the Reformation....
33K, there are liberals in many groups. I would think there are even liberal Menonites, and there are most assuredly liberal Southern Baptists. But the original Anabaptists were and many are still are the most opposed groups to Papism.
Yes, I am sorry to say I heard quite a few years ago that he had passed away. I do not know the circumstances. I believe I heard it in the 1990s. One could possibly find out by a phone call or E Mail to Chick Publications.
I was looking through the comic called Alberto on the Chick website trying to find the part about the Messo-Arabic mass. Is the reference to the Mass for Muslims in the Alberto comic and how far through it? Thanks.
By the way Lance, I heard Alberto speak in person at a meeting in the Vancouver area around 1986. He is for real, but has since passed away. (You said as long as you don't take the comics too seriously.)
I read all of his comics 20 years ago, which claim to be based on a true story. I think there are about four or five of them. The meeting where he spoke was packed and as I recall there were a few skeptics there who tried to argue with him. He was a very powerful speaker and what he said had the ring of truth to it.
What you point out concerning the Koran being written by the Vatican does sound a bit hard to believe I admit. Perhaps Mr. Chick was mislead on that point. I have no way of knowing. However I would not be too quick to dismiss Alberto's life story in those comics based on one or two points that may be incorrect.
The comics do seem credible, and even though I can't remember what he actually said as it was almost 20 years ago, I recall thinking he did sound credible. He was a short, slim fellow with a strong Spanish accent.
Wayne, I checked out the Jack Chick site. Jack Chick comics are always fun (as long as you don't take them seriously).
I looked at the one Alberto Rivera comic on offer and noticed that the "young Jesuit seminarian" studied the "Messo-Arabic mass", of which the footnote says: "Roman Catholic liturgical form of the Mass for Muslims."
Now that would be interesting: Rome creating a Mass for Muslims. I'm sure they'd flock to it.
Of course, it's meant to be a reference to the Mozarabic liturgy, which is not a liturgy for Muslims, but a Spanish liturgy for Catholics.
We are also told that the Koran was written by the Vatican, and that St Augustine was only pretending to be a Christian.
Mr Chick never lets facts stand in the way of a good story.
A member of an apostate church meets the leader of THE APOSTATE CHURCH. How exciting. The one problem with the Reform movement, many in it, still think that the Roman Church can be reformed. Anabaptists would have told you back in the 1600's this was an impossiblity. How to pick a church? should have been the question. Now this one will get me into hot water. After reading this address all you questions to Don!
I'm still optimistic. It would take a miracle to turn independent Baptists into Presbyterians and it would take an even bigger miricle for all the faithful Presbyterian denominations to unify. The reason I'm optimistic is that I believe in a God of miracles and I believe that the Lord Jesus is praying that His Bride would be perfect and united as He is united to the Father (Jn 14:22-23). I have no idea how this will happen, but it would be more likely to happen if Christians gave themselves to prayer and study of the Bible and if they had the humility to see if they could learn from the men who wrote the Westminster Confession of Faith.
The WCF, as it is such a good summary of the Bible itself, is an organic unity. Before you flick through it and find a point you disagree on, try to understand the whole. Then you'll start to understand the wisdom of the parts. By the way, it would help greatly if the first people to do this were Presbyterians.
It seems like many of the major denominations whose forefathers, the Reformers, came out of Rome in the Reformation are for some reason moving back toward Rome. The Reformers would be shocked if they saw what was happening.
I think it was former Jesuit priest, Alberto Rivera, who said they infiltrate Bible seminaries, protestant churches, etc. and work for Rome to bring about their ecumenical agenda and reverse the Reformation. Maybe he was correct. Even if it is not the Jesuits, many of the larger denominations seem to have their share of liberal, ecumenical churchmen.
It seems that smaller independent churches are in a better position to adhere to the Bible, avoid being taking over by liberals, and avoid being swallowed up by this ecumenical giant.
Perhaps this has always been true but now appears more evident.
Back in the 80s, a pastor/evangelist, who did much work in Quebec, said the day may be coming when Bibles will be forbidden and true believers will be persecuted in the western world. Incidentally he was put in jail once in Quebec for preaching the gospel.
If you want a great reason for upholding the classic Confessions of Faith (eg Westminster, Dort etc), look at what they say:
"..not all of the claims and teachings contained in the classical confessions appear to be as valid or appropriate today as they seemed to their authors. For example, the prominent place given to the doctrine of predestination in several of the classical Reformed confessions, and the form of its exposition, today appear exegetically, theologically and pastorally questionable. Again, the anti-Roman Catholic tone characteristic of some of them was a product of the time of their composition which today can no longer be sustained. Yet again, they on occasion adopted attitudes to specific issues of faith and order which today are increasingly controversial. For instance, the forbidding of women to baptize or to preach (second Helvetic Confession, chap. 20; Scots Confession, Chap. 22), is a tenet which many Reformed churches are now convinced can no longer be upheld. For reasons such as these it is impossible simply to appropriate and perpetuate the classical Reformed confessions as binding doctrinal standards for Reformed churches in the 20th century."
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
Peter: WAARP?: Worldly Apostatates against Protestant Reformation
Martin Luther and John Calvin got justification wrong is a theological view gaining an everwider hearing among `evangelicals'.
This so called New Perspective on Paul (NPP), is based on a re-understanding of justification by faith really a MISunderstanding--but then, the PCUSA is FILLED W/misunderstanding of Christianity.
Given how apostate they are, if the PCUSA went 'back to Rome' it would become closed to orthodox Christianity than it is now INMO (kind of like a Buddhist who becomes a JW: at least he has a bible to read, and might discover truth). PCUSA right now stands for abortion on demand, celebrates sodomy, & proclaims Big Bang evolution as true.
John Wilson, editor :Books &Culture, an evangelical publication under the Christianity Today's umbrella, wrote a piece last month for the Wall Street Journal - he expressed appreciation for the NPP and its most prominent proponent, N. T. Wright.
though Wilson didn't get into details or theological arguments buttressing the NPP, but he did express his gratefulness that NPP has led to rapprochement between evangelicals and Catholics...there will be more WAARPED Christians on the way, as this is the spirit of the age....