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FRONT PAGE  |  1/22/2017
THURSDAY, DEC 8, 2005  |  27 comments
Bush 'Holiday' Cards Cause Stir
(AP) Some U.S. conservative Christians who received Christmas cards from the White House this month are grumbling that something was missing, Christmas.

As in every December since President George W. Bush took office, he sent out cards with a generic message, wishing 1.4 million supporters a happy "holiday season."

Bush "claims to be a born-again, evangelical Christian. But he sure doesn't act like one," Joseph Farah, editor of the conservative Web site, told The Washington Post. "I threw out my White House card as soon as I got it."

Other conservatives on the Bushes' list accused the first couple of giving in to a national push for more secular celebrations. ...

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· Page 1 ·  Found: 27 user comment(s)
News Item12/10/05 10:23 PM
Lance Eccles | Sydney, Australia  Contact via email
Yes Chris, I work in a university: Macquarie University in Sydney. There's a broader range of opinion in universities than one might imagine.

While the dominant culture is aggressively anti-Christian and liberal, there are many people who don't share these views.

As far as I know, there is no one in my department (Asian Languages) openly hostile to Christianity, and moreover I have close connections with the Department of Ancient History, many of whose staff members are devout Protestants (plus the occasional RC).

Student Christian organisations of various types are energetically active, and from my RC point of view the best thing is that Mass is said on campus every day during term time.


News Item12/10/05 8:06 PM
Chris M | Australia  
Lance, never heard of a 'Manichean' & have no idea what this is. When I say 'flesh' I mean it in the sense the bible frequently uses it - mans natural proclivities as driven by his sinful nature, not our actual skin or physical body!

BTW an OT question, do you work at a University? If so how on earth do you survive with all those extreme left wing / marxist lunatics that run Australian universities? Just curious... maybe it is like being the only true RC on these forums with a motly bunch non-RC's?


News Item12/10/05 7:48 PM
Lance Eccles | Sydney, Australia  Contact via email
Chris, you sound like a Manichean. The flesh is not evil, it too was made by
God and is good.

The NT prescribes no rituals. That is not its purpose.

I would imagine that you disapprove not only of RC ritual, but also of virtually everything, apart from Bible reading and preaching, that happens in Protestant churches.


News Item12/10/05 6:38 PM
Daniel Lee Ford | Spring Arbor, Mich.  
from :2004
At today's White House news briefing, WND asked presidential press secretary Scott McClellan about Bush's recognition of Kwanzaa and the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty during the Six Day War.
WND: The president, on Christmas Eve, greeted those who celebrate Kwanzaa, which the Washington Post two days later reported "was created by a California educator and activist in 1966." But the Post failed to report that five years after Ron Karenga invented Kwanzaa, he was sent to prison for torturing two black women while his gang killed two Black Panthers. And my question, first of
two –
McCLELLAN: Is it a question or a statement, Les?
WND: No, no, it's a question. Why did the president, who opposes terrorism, salute anything invented by such a criminal as Karenga?
McCLELLAN: I think for the reason stated in the proclamation, as he did with other religions – with other religions.

Pres. Bush can : 1)pray at a Shinto (demon) temple in Japan ( where neither Clinton, nor the Japanese leaders would follow suit);
2) publically proclaim that Christians and Muslims worship the same "god";
3) hold a "National Day of Prayer and Remembrance" after 9-11 in which he had Muslims & Jews "leading" professing Christians in prayer.

News Item12/10/05 6:37 PM
Chris M | Australia  
Lance, religious rituals are dead and do nothing to please God, they only appeal to ones fleshly nature which is at enmity with God. My authority? God's word.

Psa 51v16-17 "For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou hast no pleasure in burnt-offering. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise."

Please tell me what rituals were given in the New Testament to the early church to observe?


News Item12/10/05 6:34 PM
Daniel Lee Ford | Spring Arbor, Mich.  
President Bush is a member of Highland Park United Methodist Church in Dallas, Texas.

By the way, one radio show host, Bob Enyart of, during
GW's first election run, called up Highland Park United Methodist Church in Dallas, Texas and presented himself as a prospctive 'gay'(sodomite) and wanted to know if he and his 'partner'(fellow sodomite) could become MEMBERS of Highland Park United Methodist Church in Dallas, Texas. The 'pastor' there immediately said, sure, we'd welcome you.
So, GW's idea of a 'church' membership includes fellow practicing sodomites.

Which is why GW issued an OFFICIAL White House congratulations to the Metropolitan Community Church(the largest sodomite 'church' in the world)
YES:Bush went so far as to send an official, personal, letter on Presidential letterhead at taxpayer expense to the "Metropolitan Church" -- which proclaims itself to be openly "pro-gay" & is mostly filled with/ led by Sodomites -- on their 30th Anniversary congratulating them on their "service to god"


News Item12/10/05 6:28 PM
A believer  
Jim, why would you call this country "blessed" because it is pro-Israel? Why would God bless us when Israel is a secular christ-rejecting nation, not unlike the many Moslem countries.

News Item12/10/05 6:11 PM
Lance Eccles | Sydney, Australia  Contact via email
RV, I wondered after I wrote it if someone would pick me up on that.

Man is an animal in so far as he has a material body. But at the same time he is not an animal because he has an immortal soul created in the image of God, and a body that will be resurrected on the Last Day.


News Item12/10/05 11:12 AM
RV | Kenosha  
Man is a social animal? Is this just tounge and cheek or do you really feel that humans are a type of animal?

News Item12/10/05 7:29 AM
Lance Eccles | Sydney, Australia  Contact via email
An inclination towards ritual, order and beauty is essential to man's soul, and is a reflection of God. Even non-Christians recognise this.

The Reformers, especially Calvin, tried to rationalise religion, reducing it to words in a book, albeit a sacred book, and ignoring the fact that man is more than just a thinking brain.

The result was that every man became his own church, seeking his own path. Luther recognised the problem, but did nothing about it.

Calvin recognised the problem and tried to do something about it, but few listened.


News Item12/10/05 5:38 AM
Chris M | Australia  
Quote: "Man is a social animal. He likes to observe special occasions"

Quite so. Man is also an inherently religious animal; he has a natural inclination towards institutional religion with its rituals, and away from God.


News Item12/10/05 5:15 AM
Lance Eccles | Sydney, Australia  Contact via email
Chris, it's not a matter of going on a holiday, but a matter of observing or celebrating a holy day.

Didn't Jesus and the apostles celebrate Passover?

It's true that we should live according to the Gospel every day of our lives, but by observing special days representing events in the life of the Saviour we incorporate the Gospel into our social patterns.

Man is a social animal. He likes to observe special occasions, and if many of those special occasions are related to the Gospel, so much the better.


News Item12/10/05 4:05 AM
I guess there's now a movement to call the Christmas Tree a "Holiday Tree" instead. Heard it on the news. Well, if you don't like the Christmas Tree just don't get one. It's rediculous how people complain of Christians imposing their faith and then these people turn around and say it can't be called a Christmas Tree. They are just as guilty at that point.

News Item12/10/05 3:59 AM
Chris M | Australia  
No Lance; why do you ask?

Did the Apostles go on a holiday? I know Peter went off fishing but he was rebelling somewhat at that point. See where Jonahs holiday landed him.

In terms of 'special days' for the Christian - whilst each day is in one sense - the Lordsday is special as we remember the work of the Lord and his rising from the dead. Doesn't get any more special than that until he returns!

The most importang gathering for Christians in the Lords Supper - Jesus said "this do in rememberance of me"; he didn't ask us to just remember his birth or death one time in a year.


News Item12/9/05 10:47 PM
Lance Eccles | Sydney, Australia  Contact via email
Are there any Christian holidays, Chris?

News Item12/9/05 2:38 PM
Jim | Nebraska  
No, Tony, Bush is not a Zionist. He has been working against the interests of Israel. This country has been blessed because it has been pro-Israel. Bush had several good reasons for going after Iraq, such as attacking our airplanes in the no flight zone, and the threat against his father, that is, a former American president. He was just cleaning up after his father. Some of our problems are because of the U.S. government hostility toward Israel? What should be remembered is that Islam is also totally hostile to Christianity also.

Again, pointing out a Gil Rugh booklet about Israel and the Church is different q.v.,

By the way, Engineer, I thought that Bush was Episcopalian and only went to the Methodist church because his wife made him do it.


News Item12/9/05 2:13 PM
Clint  Contact via email
If I recall correctly, Bush had a Bible verse on his card.

News Item12/8/05 4:06 PM
Chris M | Australia  
What is the fuss about? We never mention 'Christmas' on any of our cards because we are Christian and don't recognise a pagan holiday; I'm glad GW Bush doesn't either. It's good to include a verse of scripture on your cards though.

News Item12/8/05 4:00 PM
RV | Kenosha  
Clint not if they die a believer of the Muslim faith.

News Item12/8/05 3:59 PM
Engineer | USA  
""sure they just take a different path""
by Bush
means he thinks that the "path" or "way"
of Islam can lead to heaven.

Bush did NOT mean that if Moslems CHANGE their 'path', repent and accept the only "way, truth and life" the Lord Jesus Christ, they will go to heaven.

At best, such a statement shows rank ignorance of basic doctrine... and as Bush is a mainline Methodist, it shouldn't surprise anyone.

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