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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  8/21/2014
TUESDAY, NOV 15, 2005  |  56 comments
Teen Murder Suspect Returns to Pennsylvania


Nov. 15: David Ludwig is escorted to an Indiana State Police plane in Indianapolis.

BELLEVILLE, Ind. ‚ÄĒ An 18-year-old suspected of gunning down his girlfriend's parents returned to Pennsylvania on Tuesday afternoon.

David Ludwig was flown back from Indiana ‚ÄĒ where he and his 14-year-old girlfriend, Kara Beth Borden, were arrested some 600 miles from the double-murder scene a day earlier.

Hendricks County Prosecutor Patricia Baldwin said Ludwig signed documents at the Hendricks County Jail in Danville, Ind., that cleared the way for Pennsylvania authorities to take him home to face murder charges.

The handcuffed and shackled teenage suspect was reportedly cooperating with authorities. ...


CLICK HERE to Read Entire Article
www.foxnews.com

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   11/24/05  |  Did Christian rock play role in murders? • 15 comments
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· Page 1 ·  Found: 56 user comment(s)
News Item3/5/09 9:57 PM
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56

News Item11/23/05 10:46 PM
Ron  
2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2 Timothy 4:4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
55

News Item11/23/05 10:46 PM
Ron  
The world is slowly creeping into our churches. They are putting homosexuals in the pulpit and many preachers are afraid to teach and preach the full counsel of God for fear of lower numbers in church or less money in the offering plates. Many churches are bowing to man rather than God. The few churches that stand on the Word of God and preach against sin are accused of hate. Rock and Roll has invaded the sanctuary of which the Psalmist wrote we are to 'lift up holy hands in'. The hands being raised today in these churches are not being lifted to God, but to worldly music that feeds the flesh.

We certainly are living in the days Paul wrote to Timothy about when he said.....
...........cont.

54

News Item11/23/05 9:58 PM
Ron  
Pillar, named for the biblical description of God's household as "the pillar and foundation of truth," plays rap-core, a furiously propulsive mash-up of hard rock and rap. Musically, they are as creditable as many of their top-40 counterparts.

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

53

News Item11/23/05 9:53 PM
Ron  
2 Corinthians 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you,

Instead of coming out from among the world, the church invites music industry in to feed the flesh in the house of God?

Mark 11:17 And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves.

52

News Item11/23/05 9:50 PM
Ron  
If your only association with contemporary Christian music (CCM) is Amy Grant or Stryper, you might be surprised at how popular, varied and artistically mature the genre has become in the last 15 years. By some estimates, Christian music sales topped $720 million last year, making it a bigger niche than jazz and classical combined. For every genre of mainstream music there is a Christian parallel: rock, punk, reggae, folk, dance pop, gangsta rap. Pillar, named for the biblical description of God's household as "the pillar and foundation of truth," plays rap-core, a furiously propulsive mash-up of hard rock and rap.
51

News Item11/23/05 9:48 PM
Ron  
Philippians 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

How can there be any peace with all that head banging worldly music?

50

News Item11/23/05 9:46 PM
Ron  
Nov. 24, 2005 | On the night of Oct. 6, David Ludwig, 18, and his 14-year-old girlfriend, Kara Beth Borden, went to church. There was no sermon, though -- at least not a traditional one. David and Kara were at the Lancaster Bible Church in Manheim, Penn., for a Christian rock concert. As the punishingly loud guitars of Audio Adrenaline and Pillar strained the limits of the church sound system, the kids screamed and pumped their fists and banged their heads.
49

News Item11/23/05 8:02 AM
RosaMarie  Contact via email
You know, this case is getting weirder and worse all the time. Here at this link;

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/nation/13236996.htm

There is more information as to what happened, as well as information on the ages of the children. There is a wide range between them. The oldest are 25 and 21 years old, the youngest is 11. The article ends with this;

KellyMarie Conlon and another Borden family friend, Zach Acox, high school friends of James Borden's, have worked to set up a trust fund for the children.

Tuesday Conlon wondered if news that Borden willingly ran away with her parents' alleged killer would discourage people from making donations.

"All I can say is, I hope it doesn't affect fundraising," Conlon said, adding that there may be a benefit concert. "There are still four other children besides Kara who are now parentless."

48

News Item11/22/05 10:40 PM
RosaMarie  Contact via email
I stand corrected 33K. If they're considering charges, she does indeed need a lawyer.
47

News Item11/22/05 10:33 PM
Sir Sneezalot  
Not all the family, she has two older brothers

Is it right that taxpayers who barely get by with what money they make each month be responsible for keeping someone behind bars that they don't even know?

46

News Item11/22/05 10:02 PM
.  
"I say if a person is sentenced to life behind bars, let that person's family foot the bill."

That person's family are dead

45

News Item11/22/05 9:30 PM
Sir Sneezalot  
I think Kara left the house so she would not hear the gunshots.
44

News Item11/22/05 9:28 PM
Ron  
I still don't understand this life behind bars punishment. I mean, I know she is 14, but her parents were not allowed to live.

I know that God wants people to have compassion and mercy, but if she is found guilty and sentenced to life in prison, the american taxpayer is going to be the one paying for her comfort behind bars. I say if a person is sentenced to life behind bars, let that person's family foot the bill.

43

News Item11/22/05 9:23 PM
Ron  
November 22, 2005 6:00 p.m. EST
42

News Item11/22/05 9:21 PM
Ron  
Ludwig tells investigators, "I shot mom as she was sitting in the chair... It was an intentional murder, I intended to shoot them, and I did." CBS News legal analyst Wendy Murphy tells The Early Show, "Certainly, the fact that (authorities are) no longer referring to her as a kidnap victim, that she did in fact go willingly with him after the fact, is a step closer to charges. Now, it's not a done deal, but you can bet that that's the move the police are making at this point." Murphy went on to say, "If she is charged because she was part of the planning, if she is charged because she was sort of a co-conspirator, she will face murder charges, even if she didn't pull the trigger. And the important thing to know about this, in terms of Pennsylvania law, is because she's 14, she's old enough to be transferred to adult court, be prosecuted as an adult and face, not the death penalty because of her age, but life behind bars."
41

News Item11/22/05 9:20 PM
Ron  
(AHN) - CBSNews.com reports prosecutors may be considering filing counts against Kara Borden, the girlfriend of a Pennsylvania teen accused of killing her parents. One analyst says she may even face murder charges.

According to District Attorney Donald Totaro, Kara Borden, 14, "left willingly" with her 18-year old boyfriend, David Ludwig, who confessed to killing the girl's parents.

Ludwig says after the murders, as the he was driving away, Kara entered the car, and told him she wanted to "get as far away as possible, get married, and start a new life."

40

News Item11/22/05 7:37 PM
RosaMarie  Contact via email
"But to construct an opinion from the simple fact that she left with him is a huge leap that is unworthy of this forum. Would we necessarily expect someone in such a situation to be acting rationally?"

See, I have a hard time seeing it the way you do. I do believe she acted irrationally but when you compare her behavior to other cases that have been similar, it rings a warning bell. Her brother and sister were there and yet they didn't go running after the killer, asking to go with him. They also had been through the same ordeal. The difference between their reaction and Kara's I believe is something that needs to be looked at. She wasn't alone with him and she wasn't kidnapped. She not only left with him willingly, she went running after him. That says something.

"Likewise, she needs a lawyer and absolutely nothing should be inferred about guilt or innocence from that fact. In fact, a lawyer may have been imposed on her by the government."

I disagree with the need for a lawyer if you've not been charged with anything, especially since up until now she's been treated as a victim by those in law enforcement. The government wouldn't impose a lawyer on anyone who hadn't been charged with a crime.

I completely understand your desire to be fair and I appreciate it.

39

News Item11/22/05 7:04 PM
33k  
Rosamarie,

I appreciate your comments.

My concern is that comments are being made on here by others such as
"Her leaving with him willingly shows her guilt, foreknowledge, and cold-blooded part in the crime."

Due legal process may indeed one day determine some degree of guilt based upon real evidence.
But to construct an opinion from the simple fact that she left with him is a huge leap that is unworthy of this forum.
Would we necessarily expect someone in such a situation to be acting rationally?
My point is that per se I would not necessarily expect her to be able give any more meaningful consent ( or act as accessory, or act with "common purpose") in this situation than with unlawful underage sex (which the law rightly says it is impossible for her to do).

Likewise, she needs a lawyer and absolutely nothing should be inferred about guilt or innocence from that fact. In fact, a lawyer may have been imposed on her by the government. I think that's what would happen in such a situation in Britain at any rate.

38

News Item11/22/05 6:06 PM
RosaMarie  Contact via email
"Assuming the law in Pennsylvania is similar to that in the UK, why would the legal system regard a 14 year old girl as being unable to give meaningful consent to a man for sexual intercourse but then regard a 14 year old girl as able to give meaningful consent to a man to murder her parents?"

I don't know that the law would recognize any sort of authority for her to give consent, just as they don't give underage girls the authority to consent to sex.

That said, she doesn't have to consent to be considered guilty. If in fact she knew what he was planning and didn't tell anyone, it makes her guilty whether or not the law finds her that way. I'm not familiar with PA law, but in some states, that would earn you at the very least an 'depraved indifference to life' charge.

Personally, I'm more concerned about the attorney. If he was hired immediately, then it doesn't speak well of her innocence. She was never charged with anything so why the need for a lawyer? If she gets a book deal and lots of money out of this, I will be ill.

37
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