Ohio: Violence in North Toledo after Nazi march canceled; mayor declares curfew
Members of the National Socialist Movement gesture to protesters (not pictured) from the grounds of Woodward High School in Toledo, Ohio October 15, 2005.
Mayor Jack Ford declared a state of emergency this afternoon following a violent uprising in North Toledo that erupted following an aborted march by a group of Nazis.
He issued a citywide curfew starting at 8 p.m. tonight, tomorrow, and possibly Monday.
Mr. Ford said those protesting were mainly male gang members in their 20s. He said the protests were not triggered by race relations but by gang members with grievances.
North Toledo descended into chaos for several hours this afternoon after angry crowds who turned out to protest a planned march by a small group of National Socialist Movement calling themselves "Americaâs Nazi Party" erupted into violence.
Mike, you're right about the GOP being wimpy, but I know what David means about GOP worship. I don't know if you have experienced anything similar, but from what I've seen, the average Neo-con Christian will jump all over you if you disagree with Bush, the Iraq War, or voting for the "lesser of the two evils" in favor of voting for a third party Christian for public office with the same biblical standards in mind as you'd use for voting for an elder in the church. Christians are so afraid of a democrat winning that they'll vote for a big government advocate from the republican party who's just as godless. And most churches won't educate their congregations on godly politics and statesmanship, so many Christians end up voting democrat, because they see the problems with the republican party but don't know where else to turn. It's interesting, because sometimes it's easier to talk to Christians who vote democrat than it is to talk to republicans about Iraq and our nation's interventionism. Sometimes I wonder if these confused saints don't have a better chance of understanding Christian politics than the republican ones do. The republican party was birthed in unitarianism and socialism, and not long ago the democrats in the South were the Christians and states' rights advocates.
Problem is, Nazis are not opposed to violence, just violence they disagree with.
You are absolutely correct in calling the media a propaganda machine.
As for critics of the federal government being called unpatriotic, that may be true. But that is because patriotism is misunderstood. Patriotism is love of country, not government. Governments can't be trusted, because concentrated power can't be trusted.
The GOP is too wimpy to be worshipped. They feel wonderful if they slow down the wrong direction the liberals are taking us. It never seems to occur to them that a reversal of direction is needed. That won't happen unless people of God are leading. Too bad some Christians feel they shouldn't be involved. Just complaining about the corruption seems to be good enough.
First, I'll weigh-in on the Nazi issue. They weren't there because of violence, they were there for 2 reasons. First, for exposure. To let people know they exist. I'm sure they had organizational material to hand someone had they requested it. Second, because of the violence - the violence of black on whites, which I'm sure they feel, isn't reported. Having been in the military, I know firsthand that our media is nothing more than a propaganda machine. The only thing that keeps them remotely honest is the internet. The fact that our government is closer to a Nazi position than these folks is what's fairly ironic. Fiscally, we're socialist and we are absolutely nationalistic (ever hear a critic of the fedgov not called "unpatriotic"?). The way most conservatives worship the GOP is sickening. I myself make most conservatives look liberal because, in reference to RosaMarie's position, a person shouldn't even be allowed to run for office unless they're Christian.
A good government presupposes a good Christian church -not the other way around. And how can we expect a pagan government to protect us? Just look at whats happening now! A few books worth reading: Lex Rex by Sam Rutherford; Aarons Rod Blossoming by George Gillespie; and Buchanan's, De Jure Regni apud Scotus.
Speaking of magistrates, pastors are technically magistrates, because they uphold God's Law, indeed His entire Word, because it is authoritative. Authoritativeness is what makes something law. When Paul under inspiration by the Holy Spirit declares us saved by grace alone through faith and not of ourselves, that is law. Pastors are magistrates in the Church sphere of government, which is where the clergy's robe comes from. The fact that many clergy do not recognize this today does not make it any less historically and biblically accurate.
People who believe like RosaMarie need to be reminded that their justification by faith alone involves a legal proceeding! What do people think earthly legal proceedings are based upon (namely in our nation?) Indeed the entire Bible is a legal document.
So, if people who believe like RosaMarie want to separate religion from politics, they're going to have a hard time if they uphold the Bible as God's authoritative Word. Politics and religion are inexorably linked.
They absolutely should be involved. People have the idea that politics is dirty in and of itself, but it isn't! It's only dirty because Christians have abandoned it. It's unfortunate that Christians like Rosamarie think Christians shouldn't be involved in it.
"I know there are some who believe the answer is to elect a 'Christian' politician but to me, there are some jobs you don't do when you're a Christian. Politician is one of them. Hope I'm not offending anyone but that is my honest belief."
Not offending me RosaMarie, your belief is correct. I'll just leave it at that.
The crucial point is that the Nazi's did not "hit", they only "spoke". It may seem like a small difference, but it is the only thing holding together the peace and safety of our society. If we have a hair brained scheme for a society in which we throw everyone together from every extreme ever known to man, then we are going to get a lot of inflammatory language. However, when a person or group of people take it to the next step and act violently then we have major problems. After looking at a lot of stories on Google News I believe the lion share of the guilt here lies with the gang members.
By the way, I'm sorry to hear that you believe that a Christian should not be in politics. It must be really surreal to live in a world where one of the most noble Christian callings is taboo.
Craig, I looked up some other articles about this incident. Found one at yahoo and here is part of it;
"Much of the anger boiled over because people were upset that city leaders were willing to allow the supremacists to walk through the neighborhood and shout insults, residents and authorities said.
"You can't allow people to come challenge a whole city and not think they weren't going to strike back," said Kenneth Allen, 47, who watched the violence begin near his home.
Authorities said there was little they could do to stop the group, because they did not apply for a parade permit and instead planned to walk along sidewalks.
"They do have a right to walk on the Toledo sidewalks," said Mayor Jack Ford, who at one point confronted leaders of the mob and tried to settle them down."
Sounds to me that they did more than just walk on the sidewalks. They started the mess and they're getting a free pass from the Mayor. Reminds me of the times I get one kid hitting her brother then getting all upset when he hits her back. This riot didn't appear out of thin air, there was a process, a leading up to it. Sin usually works that way.
"At around 2:30 p.m., Mayor Ford, Mr Walter, Toledo Fire Chief Mike Bell, and the Rev. Mansour Bey, associate pastor of First Church of God, approached a crowd of about 600 people at the intersection of Mulberry and Central in an attempt to calm the crowd.
It didnât work.
Using a megaphone to make themselves heard over the shouts from the crowd, Mr. Ford and Mr. Bell tried to explain that the Nazis had left hours ago.
âIâve sat here, and for the last couple of hours, we have tore up our own neighborhood ... The Nazis are gone,â Mr. Bell shouted.
âWhy were they allowed to be here? Thatâs what I want to know,â screamed back one man.
Many members of the crowd yelled that the Nazis should never have been able to march in the first place.
Mayor Ford said he heard one person in the crowd say to him: âI ought to shoot you.â
As the officials talked with the crowd, looters just across the intersection broke into Jim and Louâs Bar and began stealing merchandise.
At one point, Mr. Bell appeared to be successful in negotiating. He approached a crowd of police officers gathered a couple of blocks away and announced that the crowd âsaid theyâd disperse if the police left.â
He returned to the intersection, but someone had set Jim and Louâs bar on fire."
"Does anything evoke louder laughter than the idea that Nazis would actually protest violence?"
LOL! Thanks for the chuckle.
"Mr. Szych said he has had absolutely no contact with the neo-Nazis"
Good for him.
"Should they have not allowed the march to take place because of the beliefs and message of the Nazis?"
Craig, this is a slippery slope you're presenting me with. I believe the only forthright way to prevent hate groups like this Nazi group from marchs and parades is by the way some are currently proposing; via hate speech laws. But if we give the government that kind of power, especially on a federal level, its sure to be used against Christians and the Bible sooner or later. I know there are some who believe the answer is to elect a 'Christian' politician but to me, there are some jobs you don't do when you're a Christian. Politician is one of them. Hope I'm not offending anyone but that is my honest belief.
Problems like this arise when governments are either sympathetic to these groups (and it sounds like the Mayor was trying to diminish what the Nazi group brought into the situation, not to mention his own failure to curb the origin of the problem) or when they treat such groups as being equal to all other groups.
Apparently the Nazis were coming to support a guy who was having a dispute with his black neighbor, even though he did not ask them to. Also, the black youth are apparently acting like what we saw in New Orleans. Read this quote: "Yet Mr. Szych wasn't alone in claiming that his neighborhood has been plagued by crime.
Three or four neighbors came over while Mr. Szych was being interviewed, backing up what he said about past violence.
Those who gathered on Mr. Szych's lawn prior to yesterday's riots claimed the problems go beyond reputed gang activity. They said there has been prostitution, break-ins, graffiti involving racial slurs, and daylight beatings and robberies of women.
"People make it sound like it's a clean-cut neighborhood in Perrysburg and it's not," said a man who identified himself as a neighbor but declined to give his name. "People want to make it out like it's a few people and it's not," he added.
Mr. Szych said the neo-Nazis came to Toledo only because city officials, including police, have not done enough to keep their neighborhood safe.
"That leaves the opportunity for a bunch of idiots to come to town," he said. "I don't need them to defend my rights."
Mr. Szych said he has had absolutely no contact with the neo-Nazis."
My filtering software botched the question by taking out a word. Of course the Govt. should not have the parade. Should they have not allowed the march to take place because of the beliefs and message of the Nazis?
The reason the gangs were upset was that the Nazis were Marching to protest gang viooence. Unfortunately, the Nazis proved their point that these neighborhoods are violent and dangerouse and that the black gangs are responsible. I'm sure this was there hope from the start--and will only bolster their unholy convictions. Why no else protested? Because they would have been seen to support the violent gangs--a real catch 22.