Aug. 29 - Sept. 5, 2005 issue - The 1960s did not penetrate very deeply into the small towns of the Quaboag Valley of central Massachusetts. Even so, Father Thomas Keating, the abbot of St. Joseph's Abbey, couldn't help noticing the attraction that the exotic religious practices of the East held for many young Roman Catholics. To him, as a Trappist monk, meditation was second nature. He invited the great Zen master Roshi Sasaki to lead retreats at the abbey. And surely, he thought, there must be a precedent within the church for making such simple but powerful spiritual techniques available to laypeople. His Trappist brother Father William Meninger found it in one day in 1974, in a dusty copy of a 14th-century guide to contemplative meditation, "The Cloud of Unknowing." Drawing on that work, as well as the writings of the contemplatives Saint John of the Cross and Saint Teresa of Avila, the two monks...
RUDI I think you will find if you look back on JOHNS post to this site,that he does not think the words you quote from the bible are for him in this day and age. You will find that after talking to JY that you would be better of talking to a wall,but hey you never know maybe you are the one GOD will use to get through the truth of HIS WORD to him. All the best brother
Beloved John, Mathew 25:31-46 shows that Jesus will Judge us according to our or the Holy Spirits works thruogh us James shows that faith without works is dead if you say you love Jesus and do not obey Him you are a liar 1 John.It is not about what I or you think will happen on judgement day but what the Lord Jesus Christ sais what will happen that matters. John what I wrote was not at all to convince you or tell you to change churches.What I shared with you was in response to other statements you made which reveal where you are at in your spiritual life.If you deal with the real issue which I mentiond in my last posting the choice of which church you are going to attend will becomme The Lords! Sincerely Rudi
If it is true that on the Day of Judgement that Christ will not ask why someone did not belong to a Fundamentalist Church then why do you Fundamentalists on this forum keep implying that membership in a Fundamentalist Church is a requirement for salvation? The only thing that Christ will require on the Day of Judgement is that someon received Him as their Savior and that is all that Christ will require on the Day of Judgement. And if anybody says otherwise then they do not know what the Bible says will transpire on the Day of Judgement.
Cont.or anything that is of the world the Love of God is not in us. I therefore beseech you John by the mercies of God,that you present your body a living sacrifice,holy,acceptable unto God,which is your reasonable service.(Sacrifices do not have their own will anylonger to choose what we like or dislike.As a matter of fact when we are truly saved all we want to do is to please The Lord Jesu Christ!) With Love from Rudi
Dear John, I have to disagree with you,it is not enoughf to recieve Christ Jesus as your Saivour to receive eternal live.The Lord Jesus Christ can not be divided.He can not be your Saviour without you making Him your LORD.If you make Him your Lord then He will be your Saviour too.The evidence of your own words show this to be your predicament.The Bibel makes it clear that to be born again means death to self (this is whwt water babtism signifies).John if we are dead our live is no longer our own we have no moore our own likes or dislikes,they are all being renewed by the Word of God Rom.12:1&2.Remeber Jesus said "If you love me keep my commandments".Yes we are saved by Grace only through the Lord Jesus Christ but God has given us a way to test ourself to see if we are trully saved! 1John 2:3 Hereby we do know that we know Him,if we keep His commandments. V.4,He that saith,I know Him,and keepeth not His commandments,is a liar,and the truth is not in him. So then if we are truly saved the Holy Spirit comes to live His life through us,He will live the Christ live through us.If we can not see His life in us expressed through works of obediance we are deceiving ourselfes in thinking that we are christians. 1John 2:15-17 Shows us clearly if we love the world
John, it has been pointed out to you numerous times before that being Trinitarian -- which the Catholic Church isn't -- does not make a Church a Christian church. If a church, any church, says that works is involved in salvation such as the Catholic Church says, then it is not Christian. You yourself have pointed out so many errors in the Catholic Church, that almost anyone of them, should make you or any other thinking Catholic leave it as soon as possible. A person who is to be a Christian has to be in the biblical form. What is a Biblical Christian? Take a look at the following booklet by Gil Rugh, which defines a true believer. http://www.ihcc.org/images/booklets/pdf/L206.pdf Can a Catholic be saved? Take a look at the main article of the following newsletter. http://www.pro-gospel.org/main/Newsletters/2003-Volume12/Vol12no2.pdf A Catholic who wants to understand the position of a Biblical Christian should pick up a study bible by Charles Ryrie or John McArthur. John McArthur has a separate book out which you can use along side of any Bible to help understand the Scripture. A short helpful file on how to study the Bible. http://www.ihcc.org/otherpub/study.htm
Why do you keep stating that only Fundamentalist Churches are the only True Churches around and Non Fundamentalist Churches who are Trinitarian are False Churches? Who says that the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church and the Non Fundamentalist Churches who are Trinitarian in belief are not houses of God and that only Fundamentalist Churches are houses of God?
I did not state that I do not like Christian Churches I stated that I do not like Fundamentalist Churches. I like the Non Fundamentalist Churches who are Trinitarian that are just as Christian as Fundamentalist Churches are.
Why do you keep stating that church membership in Fundamentalist Church is a requirement for salvation?
John, it is curious that you brought up mental illness. The Catholic Church is infamous for making saints out of mental cases, besides the well-known Joan de Arc, there was Teresa of Aguila -- I hope by hand as spelling correct -- or Ignatius Loyola, who could been as nasty instead of purely crazy. Though anyone, who says who will believe that white is black and black is white, if the pope tells them so, has to be a nut case by psychological definition. So, you think that the saints belong right with the Catholic saints, eh? :-( Now, actual Christians, may not be as respected as many Catholics and atheists because: (AV) 1Corinthians 1 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, [are called]: ....to verse 30 John, whoever said the Christian life was supposed to be comfortable? I can't help you do not like Christian churches. This is a problem that you and God are going to have to resolve, not me. I can just point out the Roman religious fun house, is not the house of God. http://www.johnankerberg.org/Articles/_PDFArchives/roman-catholicism/RC2W1299.pdf
"Here the Church of Rome (which retains the single mark: a profession of gospel truth) is designated a true church when compared to Pagans.
Turretin is saying that in the Roman Catholic Church there remains a possibility of salvation which is not true in a Pagan group, and in this sense he is willing to call them a Christian church, a true church essential, or a truly constituted church.
On the other hand Turretin makes it clear that when he considers the Catholic Church as Papal he designates her a false church and Antichristian. Notice here, that by distinguishing between the being and wellÂbeing of the Church of Rome Turretin calls them a true church (as to being) and a false church (as to wellÂbeing) at the same time. It is significant to recognize this point, which to some seems like a contradiction throughout the writings of the Reformers.
A true church can, at the same time, be considered true in one sense while false in another. In this case Turretin is saying that though the Romish church is essentially Christian (esse) it has strayed so far from its Christian foundation that it must be called false (bene esse)."
Q. What is the visible church? A. The visible church is a society made up of all such as in all ages and places of the world do profess the true religion, and of their children.
Another excellent reformed scholar, Francis Turretin, defines the essentially true church (esse) as having one mark, viz., the profession of Christianity and gospel truth.
The Church of Rome can be regarded under a twofold view (schesei); either as it is Christian, with regard to the profession of Christianity and of Gospel truth which it retains; or Papal, with regard to subjection to the pope, and corruptions and capital errors (in faith as well as morals) which she has mingled with and built upon those truths besides and contrary to the Word of God. We can speak of it in different ways. In the former respect, we do not deny that there is some truth in it; but in the latter (under which it is regarded here) we deny it can be called Christian and Apostolic, but Antichristian and Apostate (Francis Turretin, Institutes of Elenctic Theology, 1696 Latin, Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing English translation, 1997, Vol. 3, p. 121).
Speaking of a "true church" as being essentially true tells us that a church is Christian as opposed to Pagan; while speaking of a "true church" relative to its "well-being" tells us whether a particular Christian church is being faithful to God's Word.
While the former distinguishes between the Church and the world, the latter distinguishes between the faithful and the unfaithful churches among those bodies which profess Christianity.
One mark alone is sufficient to constitute an essentially true visible church Â the profession of the true religion. We use this mark to distinguish between a Christian church and a nonÂChristian church.
The idea that there is one mark that alone distinguishes the being of a church from its wellÂbeing is clearly and plainly taught in the Westminster Confession of Faith, where it states,
The visible Church, which is also catholic or universal under the gospel (not confined to one nation as before under the law), ***consists of all those throughout the world that profess the true religion,*** together with their children; and is the Kingdom of the Lord Jesus Christ; the house and family of God, out of which there is no ordinary possibility of salvation (Westminster Confession of Faith, 25:2).
"I did not say that all Christians are mentally ill just most of Fundamentalist Christians are mentally for refusing to recognize that the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church and the Non Fundamentalist Churches that are Trinitarian in belief are not cults but are just as much ***True Churches*** as are Fundamentalist Churches."
Ruling Elder Barrow wrote:
"There is an important distinction to be made between the being (esse) of a church and its well-being (bene esse).
Dear reader please, always keep this distinction in mind, or you will fail to understand both the Scriptures and the reformers (and the men of the PRCE) on this vital matter. What is necessary to the "being" of a true church is something considerably different from what is necessary to its "well-being." Since the term "true church" can be applied to both its "being" and "well-being" it is ABSOLUTELY IMPERATIVE to qualify which "true church" one is referring to, especially when making public charges.
CONT. Who says that non liturgical worship services are the only acceptable form of worship and that the liturgical worship services are not acceptable? Just because the Book of Acts does not mention liturgical worship does not mean that it is not an acceptable form of worship.
Christ and the Apostles were not mentally ill. I did not say that all Christians are mentally ill just most of Fundamentalist Christians are mentally for refusing to recognize that the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church and the Non Fundamentalist Churches that are Trinitarian in belief are not cults but are just as much True Churches as are Fundamentalist Churches.
Who says that Fundamentalist Churches are the only True Churches around anyway?
I believe what it states in Ephesians 2:8-9 because I received Christ as Savior and that is the only requirement there is for salvation. Church membership in a Fundamentalist Church has no bearing on salvation. Christ is not going to care on the Day of Judgement if someone did not belong to a Fundamentalist Church. The only thing that Christ will require is that someone received Him as their Savior. So why do you Fundamentalist keep implying that membership in a Fundamentalist Church is required for salvation when obviously it does not?
What am I supposed to do if I am not comfortable with the non liturgical worship services of the Fundamentalist Churches? Am I supposed to attend a Fundamentalist Church and be misserable the whole time? CONT.
Let's sea, John, going shopping is more important than to go to a Christian church? :-(
I'm sorry here that you think that Christians are mentally ill. So then was Christ, and the Apostles.
(AV) Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Ephesians 2:9 Not by works, lest any man should boast.
I hope one of these days, John, you will take God's Word seriously, that Christians do. The Catholic church support works plus grace -- there is nothing besides grace or it is a heresy, as was pointed out:
So I would suggest, you spend all your time shopping, and not bother going to mass, which is a less than meaningless gesture to God. The entertainment you get from going to the Catholic Church is not provide salvation.
I am sure not going to join any Fundamentalist Church because most Fundamentalists are mentally ill if they think that the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church and Non Fundamentalist Churches are cults.
You are right that the reason that I am remaining Catholic is because I like the liturgical worship better than the non liturgical worship of Fundamentalist Churches. Another reason that I am remaining Catholic is so that I can go to Saturday Vigil Mass instead of going to Sunday morning Mass in order to lay around all Sunday morning until going out to lunch and do shopping. The only time that I go to Mass on Sunday morning is on Easter and when I am busy doing other things on Saturday.
Yes any Catholic who believes all Catholic doctrine and does not ascertain for themselves which doctrines are logical and should be adhered to and which doctrines are illogical and should be dispensed with and that the only way to get saved is by receiving Christ as Savior are mentally ill.