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SUNDAY, APRIL 20, 2014 | TIPS Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
COVER Page ALL News CHOICE VIDEOS User COMMENTS
Choice News WEDNESDAY, JUL 13, 2005| 22 comments
Most gays, psychologists reject conversion
BELLEVUE, Wash. — “God loves you, but —”

Many of the nearly 150 people gathered in the sanctuary of Newport Presbyterian Church were already nodding in agreement before Jallen Rix could finish the thought.

“‘God loves you, but — ’” he was saying. “That is not unconditional love.”

A decade ago, Jallen Rix was a well-known singer and songwriter on the gay pop scene, touring the country behind an album that was nominated for three Gay & Lesbian American Music Awards. ...


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· Page 1 ·  Found: 22 user comment(s)
News Item7/19/05 1:07 PM
Steven D. Lynch | Chapel Hill, TN USA  Contact via email
Since we have more than enough Graceless Christians involved with ministry ... I'm glad Joe has chosen to remain silent.
22

News Item7/17/05 7:50 PM
Chris M | Australia  
Joe wrote: "Homosexuals are dogs. They are filthy beasts that need to be taken and destroyed. After death they will be in Hell where they belong."

Yes Joe, and so are you and I without Christ.

21

News Item7/17/05 2:36 PM
Steven D. Lynch | Chapel Hill, TN  Contact via email
Joe,

For someone that claims to be an authority on the scriptures, you sure are quick to dismiss the doctrines of Grace, Repentance & reconciliation.

I don't recall the Master ever treating someone like a dog and destroying them when He walked the earth.

I do know that we all have sinned and deserve death.

One would think that if there were any one group that really needs to have the Grace of God SHOWN to them, it would be those held in the grips of sin that destroys the mind, soul, and body.

Personally speaking Joe, I hope you are not involved in evangelism or any serious ministry. Your brand of "christianity" smacks more of belief in the saving ability of the law, which is not able to save at all.

20

News Item7/17/05 2:07 PM
Steven D. Lynch | Chapel Hill, TN  Contact via email
Luk 9:55 But He turned and rebuked them, [and said, "You do not know what kind of spirit you are of;
Luk 9:56 for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them."]
19

News Item7/17/05 12:13 PM
Joe | New Hampshire  
Chris, you are obviously ignorant of the scriptures.

Romans 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Homosexuals are dogs. They are filthy beasts that need to be taken and destroyed. After death they will be in Hell where they belong.

18

News Item7/17/05 4:06 AM
Chris M | Australia  
Quote: "Sodomy needs to be criminalized as a capital offense punishable by death."

Are you a Mohammadan or something Joe?

The apostle Paul to the Corinthians: "....and such were some of you; now behold I send Joe to stone you to death" (TRV - the re-hashed version)

Besides, they die off early of gross diseases they bring upon themselves anyway, not to mention their eternal destiny, poor wretches.... preach the gospel to them Joe; God is longsuffering and we should be too don't you think?

17

News Item7/17/05 2:18 AM
Joe | New Hampshire  
Sodomy needs to be criminalized as a capital offense punishable by death. This is necessary because homosexuality is a crime against God, nature and society. Not only is sodomy disgusting and perverted, but it is also contrary to nature and contrary to God's Word. In the United States of America, there now exists a social atmosphere that allows Sodomites to come out of the closet and to fornicate openly. America has committed the great sin of Sodom. America will suffer the wrath of God. America is doomed.
16

News Item7/16/05 7:23 PM
David Hall | Ohio  Contact via email
The truth of God's Holy Word has never hurt anyone! The truth will always cause divisions. Our saviour plainly said, "Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:" When you explain the truths found in Romans Chapter 1 to a practicng homosexual it will cause a rift. It shouldn't, but it will. That is why the Bible also says, "Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth." Personally, I have never met anyone who was convicted of their sin, and converted to living a Godly life, ever indicate that a Bible Believing Christian based organization did any damage to them. If anything, the truth of God's Holy word damaged their sinful behavior, not their psyche!
15

News Item7/16/05 12:25 PM
fay hash | florida  Contact via email
There is one more question to be asked in this poll. ie; Can a person, be he a sodomite or otherwise make a decision to sin or not to sin?
I may "feel" like stealing from someone or even killing someone, but I have a decision to make and must make the decision God would have me make given that I am a Christian.
14

News Item7/15/05 2:54 PM
Another Ken | East Coast  Contact via email
Let me point out that the argument of biological justification of behavior is not new. It's called "heredity vs. environment”. The basic argument is a complete undermining of psychology and psychiatry since “if all behavior is a product of genetics, no behavior can be condemned, corrected, or abated”. The result is that it tells a pedophile, “You are born this way. It doesn’t matter if this behavior hurts you or others, there is nothing you can do to stop it.”
My full arguments are at http://www.theuncompromisedword.com/samesex.htm
Here is an exerpt:The more pertinent answer to the arguments made by the homosexual community is this, “If sexual practice proves genetic programming, then, by definition, I am a genetically programmed heterosexual. Therefore, I fall under the same Biblical restraint as any homosexual, that being, “If you walk in the Spirit, you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh.” I am commanded not to practice my heterosexuality with any partner except a wife. I am commanded not to have multiple partners or cheat on my spouse by Jesus. If I violate these guidelines, I am considered sinful and under condemnation. If I cannot escape this mandate against my nature, how is your behavior whether genetic or learned exempted from the same mandate given you by God?"
13

News Item7/14/05 1:57 PM
33k  
Ken,

You are clearly an intelligent man and whilst I rarely agree with your positions I do appreciate your comments on this forum which are often well argued.

However, the use of made up words such as "homophobe" (regardless of whether they get into modern dictionaries) does not help your case. Such words are an abuse of the English language.

No one on here is afraid of "things that are the same" or even afraid of homosexuals.

Homosexuality is opposed not because we are phobic or fearful of homosexuals but because we believe the objective Word of God. If people on here (or presumably Justice Wills) are phobic or fearful of anything it is God.

I encourage you to use more meaningful terminology please.

12

News Item7/14/05 1:43 PM
Ken Welsch | Iowa  Contact via email
Craig,

Of course, Justice Wills was a homophobe and, despite his education, quite prone to hyperbole in his court. For instance during that very same trial, when laughter broke out at the *prosecutor's* words, the judge railed, "These interruptions are offensive to me beyond anything that can be described. To have to try a case of this kind, to keep the scales even and do one's duty is hard enough; but to be pestered with the applause or expressions of feeling of senseless people who have no business to be here at all except for the gratification of morbid curiosity, is too much." Wow. What a drama queen.

But more importantly, with reference to:

"But if it is a biological characteristic — like brown eyes or black skin or blond hair — then “society will have to deal with the reality that you are who you are,”

I'm not sure why you lump laws against a victimless act such as Wilde's, with a law against victimizing acts (like the child molestation and killing you bring up). If you're trying to draw an accurate analogy, of course, then one must conclude that society is perfectly justified in claiming "brown eyes or black skin" are crimes "of the most hideous kind".

11

News Item7/14/05 11:27 AM
Dan | Tennessee  
That's a good history lesson, Craig. Thanks.

I would vote to recriminalize homosexual acts but I'm afraid my vote would be in the minority of the minority. Even folks who abhor those acts are deluded in believing that what goes on in secret doesn't affect them. The truth is ... it tears down the fabric of society. Civilizations collapse because of this sin. Or they are destroyed by God.

10

News Item7/13/05 4:51 PM
Craig | USA  
continued...

"It is no use for me to address you. People who can do these things must be dead to all sense of shame, and one cannot hope to produce any effect upon them. It is the worst case I have ever tried. that you, Taylor, kept a kind of male brothel it is impossible to doubt. And that you, Wilde, have been the center of a circle of extensive corruption of the most hideous kind among young men, it is equally impossible to doubt.

I shall, under the circumstances, be expected to pass the severest sentence that the law allows. In my judgment it it totally inadequate for a case such as this. The sentence of the Court is that each of you be imprisoned and kept to hard labor for two years."


This trial in 1895 was one of the last last major trials for Sodomy. If the judge was correct, and he most certainly was, than 40% of Americans and probably a higher percentage of Europeans and Canadians heartily approve of, or perform that which shows them to be dead to all sense of shame.

9

News Item7/13/05 4:41 PM
Neil | Tucson  
Good comments, Craig.
8

News Item7/13/05 4:33 PM
Craig | USA  
The proper response of society to all types of wicked criminal behavior is neither treatment nor acceptance, but punishments that fit the crimes. The civil punishment for "buggery" in "Christian" nations has been anything from public disgrace (loss of position, authority, property, etc.) to execution. That is, until the late 19th century. It is remarkable how quickly the change came after Darwin and the Civil War.
Consider this verdict from the trial of Oscar Wilde:
Justice Wills: Oscar Wilde and Alfred Taylor, the crime of which you have been convicted is so bad that one has to put stern restraint upon one's self to prevent one's self from describing, in language which I would rather not use, the sentiments which must rise in the breast of every man of honor who has heard the details of these two horrible trials. That the jury has arrived at a correct verdict in this case I cannot persuade myself to entertain a shadow of a doubt; and I hope, at all events, that those who sometimes imagine that a judge is half-hearted in the cause of decency and morality because he takes care no prejudice shall enter into the case, may see that it is consistent at least with the utmost sense of indignation at the horrible charges brought home to both of you...
7

News Item7/13/05 4:11 PM
Craig | USA  
'If being violent is an “illness” caught after birth, the proper response is treatment, in this view. But if it is a biological characteristic — like brown eyes or black skin or blond hair — then “society will have to deal with the reality that you are who you are,” said Jon Wartes, chairman of the PFLAG conference.'

'If being a child molester is an “illness” caught after birth, the proper response is treatment, in this view. But if it is a biological characteristic — like brown eyes or black skin or blond hair — then “society will have to deal with the reality that you are who you are,” said Jon Wartes, chairman of the PFLAG conference.'

'If being a serial killer is an “illness” caught after birth, the proper response is treatment, in this view. But if it is a biological characteristic — like brown eyes or black skin or blond hair — then “society will have to deal with the reality that you are who you are,” said Jon Wartes, chairman of the PFLAG conference.'

'If cannibalism is an “illness” caught after birth, the proper response is treatment, in this view. But if it is a biological characteristic — like brown eyes or black skin or blond hair — then “society will have to deal with the reality that you are who you are,” said Jon Wartes, chairman of the PFLAG conference.

6

News Item7/13/05 2:49 PM
John | Sask.  
Amen, I think this verse needs to show up every other post or so.

(AV)
Philippians 4
8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things [are] honest, whatsoever things [are] just, whatsoever things [are] pure, whatsoever things [are] lovely, whatsoever things [are] of good report; if [there be] any virtue, and if [there be] any praise, think on these things. {honest: or, venerable}

5

News Item7/13/05 2:15 PM
Dan | Tennessee  
I wish we could take a real quick poll of God to see what His 'opinion' is on this.

Oh! Wait!! I think His 'opinion' is already Written somewhere!

(There is only one 'opinion' that counts ... and He is a majority of one)

4

News Item7/13/05 2:04 PM
Protestant | UK  
The article goes on to tout the usual hogwash about homosexuality being a product of biology. Even if it was (and I doubt very much it is) we are sinners by nature, but that is no excuse for any sin we commit. No doubt it would be easy to prove that violent men are violent due to a chemical imbalance determined in their genetic make up. That means that there violence is no more their fault than having brown eyes. If this was true, if you are ever a victim of violence you would have no more right to complain than if you saw a brown eyed person looking at you.

Obviously this is total madness and no one would ever accept this as a valid arguemnt, but this is exactly the same arguement that these sodomites use to justify their perversion.

Thankfully, Jesus can set anyone free from this perversion, but true, deep, heart-rending repentance is essential.

3
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