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Democratic Unionist Party (DUP) leader Ian Paisley (R) stands with his wife Eileen before giving a speech at his party's annual conference in south Belfast. Paisley vowed never to talk to the IRA's political ally Sinn Fein until all the Catholic guerrilla
BELFAST (Reuters) - Northern Ireland's hardline Protestant leader Ian Paisley has vowed never to talk to the IRA's political ally Sinn Fein until all the Catholic guerrilla group's weapons are destroyed.
His comments, at the annual conference of his Democratic Unionist Party (DUP) on Saturday, underlined the difficulties facing Britain and Ireland in their efforts to coax rival politicians into a deal on restoring home rule in the province.
"I will not be entering any talks, negotiations, pow-wows or socialisations with IRA/Sinn Fein," the 78-year-old preacher-politician told the DUP faithful at a Belfast hotel.
"Until Sinn Fein has surrendered its murder weaponry and turned away completely, totally and forever from its campaign of treachery, murder and mayhem, we will not be speaking to them in any way or negotiating with them at all."
Adolf Hitler came from a Catholic family, so do many evangelicals. What is important is where his beliefs brought him at the end of his life. He died a murder, a suicide, with the blood of millions on his hands. He who believed in pagan, German mythology, died far from Catholicism.
Lance, I find your commentary about the ex-priest and nun, very interesting. If I was going to give a superficial commentary, I would point out that one of my former psychology professors said, "the ends touch" this this is a French saying, apparently. It means that extremists go from one extreme to the other, and never take a moderate course.
However, the Laodiceans were infamous for being neither hot nor cold and being determined to be middle of the road is not Christian either. It is necessary for democracy, but when a person is chosen by God to be a Christian he will not be middle of the road. He will be a determined, loving servant of Christ.
Jim, I don't know that many of these priests would have gone so far as to join the Communist Party, but the ideology they espoused, Liberation Theology, was an attempt to combine Marxism with Catholicism. It didn't work of course. I've no doubt that many of their congregations finished up at the Pentecostal church down the street where people spoke only of God, not of overthrowing the state.
An ex-nun I know told me about her ex-priest brother, living in some Latin American country. He had strong Marxist ideas, and he eventually left the Catholic Church. Pol Pot was his hero, but events in Cambodia made it impossible to continue regarding Pol Pot as a hero, and so he threw away Marxism as well.
Today he is a successful businessman living in Paris.
The ex-nun (now a professor of religious studies) has left Jesus far behind too. I remember boarding a plane with her once, and she commented: "Which god should I pray to for a good seat? Baal, Neptune, Zeus...". I couldn't believe my ears.
Lance thanks for the information of Catholic beliefs. In Latin America, many priests and apparently a few bishops support(ed?) radical left-wing organizations. I think the Pope finally objected to the left wing connections of the Church leaders, and no the Latin American left-wing Church leaders aren't so obvious about it. I don't think any of these priests were ex-communicated, but I suppose they repented of their public error.
Of course all sin is mortal, as far as a Protestant is concerned--even the smallest ones in our eyes.
Jim, to add what little I know to the points you raise about mortal sin and excommunication (this is an RC point of view):
Mortal sin is any serious sin (stealing, murder, fornication, etc.) that completely excludes God's grace from the soul. If one were to die without repenting of it (for Catholics that generally means confessing to a priest), then one would go to hell. Catholics are forbidden to receive communion while in a state of mortal sin.
Excommunication goes a step further, cutting the person off from the sacraments altogether. I think that means an excommunicated person cannot even confess to a priest, but must go through a more elaborate process of reconciliation to the Church.
There are two types of excommunication. One is formal excommunication, in which case the person is officially told that s/he has been excommunicated.
But much more common is automatic excommunication, incurred by certain especially serious actions, such as joining the Communist Party, or (I believe) procuring or assisting in an abortion.
No doubt there is much in this that a Protestant would take issue with, but this (as I understand it) is the RC position on the matter.
PM, if a church would or should have it's leadership excommunicated, using the Catholic term, for shunned, then a Christian should leave that church if one the leadership isn't condemned and removed. This is true of the Catholic Church. Having dealings with Judaizers, Christian-like Pharisees, is condemned by the Apostle Paul in the Bible.
Neil, yes, Jerry Adams was, and who knows? possibly still is, a Communist. It has never stopped a Catholic from being a NAZI or a Communist, just because he was Catholic, remember baptized a Catholic, you're a Catholic. I don't know how the term, mortal sin applies, but I don't think it covers political affiliation, at least it doesn't seem to have much effect. Adolf Hitler was a Catholic, for example.
Cont.: Once Catholic's, Orthodox, Anglican's, Episcopalian's, Methodist's, Presbyterian's and Lutheran's have received Jesus as their personal savior they do not have to leave those churches as long as they disregard the unscriptural doctrines and adhere to the scriptural doctrines of those churches and every night when they go to bed rededicate their life to Jesus and ask Him to forgive any sins that they may have committed during the day.
The reason that I am remaining Catholic is because I would not feel comfortable attending a church that did not have a liturgical worship service. The only reason to receive Jesus as personal savior is to avoid going to Hell when pass away. Well I did that. I also every night when I go to bed rededicate my life to Jesus and ask Him to forgive any sins that I may have committed during the day. The way to distinguish between Christian churches and cults is the doctrine of the Deity of Christ. The reason that the Jehovah Witness, Mormons and Christian Science are called cults is because they do not adhere to the doctrine of the Deity of Christ. The Catholic Church, Orthodox Church, Anglican Church, Episcopal Church, Methodist Church, Presbyterian Church and Lutheran Church are all Christian churches because they adhere to the doctrine of the Deity of Christ. Martin Luther received Jesus as personal savior and started the Lutheran Church retaining most Catholic doctrine and Luther remained saved. John Wesley started the Methodist Church retaining most Anglican doctrine and Wesley remained saved.
PM, unless for some reason you are physically forced to be in the Catholic Church, how can you testify and be an example for Christ in an anti-Christian organization?
You recognize that the Catholic Church has elements in it that are not Christian. One of the problems with Billy Graham, among several, that has already been recognized by other posters, he does not lead people into Christian churches after they do realize they need Christ has there Savior. We are to separate ourselves from non-Christians. I spent too many years in the United Methodist Church, until I did realize there was a good Christian church alternative to it. My fault is that I didn't work harder and sooner to get to that alternative.
I hope you will pray on the matter, and see that you should be in communion with fellow Christians.
Billy Graham preaches about receiving Christ as personal savior at the Crusades. That is why millions have gone forward over the years at Graham Crusades to receive Christ as personal savior. I am a Catholic who received Jesus as personal savior and I do not see any reason to leave the Catholic Church as long as I disregard the unscriptural doctrines of the Catholic Church, adhere to the scriptural doctrines of the Catholic Church, pay attention only to the scriptural parts of the Mass and every night when I go to bed rededicate my life to Jesus and ask Him to forgive any sins that I may have committed during the day.
If one doesn't believe in Christ alone, Grace alone, Faith alone, and Scripture alone, which was condemned by the Catholic Church at the Council of Trent has placed itself in anti-Christian category by not reversing itself on these positions, and many other unfortunately. Ian Paisley is right on the Roman Catholic Church
While Catholics should not be provoked, they have a lot farther to come in the peace process than the Protestants. Both sides need to show some restraint.
Paisley is one of the worst ministers around because Paisley preaches against the Catholic Church. Paisley should be more like Billy Graham and not preach against the Catholic Church or any other church that adheres to the doctrine of the Deity of Christ. The doctrine of the Deity of Christ is what separates the cults from True Christian Churches.
God bless Ian Paisley! I pray that the Lord will raise up more just and courageous leaders like him. A good message on this topic is "Ivan Foster's Testimony and a Layman's Understanding of the Northern Ireland Conflict" at kilskeery.sermonaudio.com.
I think that the IRA should only destroy its weapons when the Protestant Para-militaries have destoryed theirs. And under "NO" cirsumstances should any protestant group be allowed to march through any catholic neighborhood regardless of tradition. There will only be peace when the protestants give equal rights to the Catholic minority. No justice, no peace!