NEW YORK (AP) ‚ÄĒ As Israelis and Palestinians take faltering steps toward peace in the Mideast, Christian groups watching from the United States have taken sharply different stances on the peace plan backed by President Bush.
The majority of churches ‚ÄĒ Roman Catholic, Orthodox, mainline Protestant and some evangelical groups ‚ÄĒ welcome the three-step plan called the ‚Äúroad map,‚ÄĚ which envisions the creation of a Palestinian state by 2005.
President Bush is hosting Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas today to discuss the initiative, and is to meet Tuesday with Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon.
A vocal segment of evangelical Protestants, however, are lobbying the Bush administration to abandon the plan because they believe it rewards terrorism and violates God‚Äôs promise to give the Jewish people the historic land of Israel.
Oh, then it's fine to be a hypocrite? No, John Y., there's no single verse that tells what
Barnes Commentary for Romans 10:10 wrote: .... Those who never profess any religion have none; and they are not safe. To deny God the Saviour before men is not safe. They who do not profess religion, profess the opposite. The real feelings of the heart will be expressed in the life. And they who profess by their lives that they have no regard for God and Christ, for heaven and glory, must expect to be met in the last day as those who deny the Lord that bought them, and who bring upon themselves quick destruction, 2Pet 2:1.
The simple matter if you remain in an anti-Christian Church, you reject Christ and are a follower of Satan. Come Out Of The Catholic Church. Being what you have been exposed to here John Y., (and for years) and then refusing to come out of the Romish Church you have rejected Christ by your (in)action. No Christian will accept you as one, until you at least do that.
Jews who become Christian in Israel, are treated no better than Protestant (Christians) in Latin American countries. If you refuse to step up to the plate, you are ejected from the game.
Jim Lincoln wrote: Quite easily John Y., if Catholics are true Christians, and know what you know, Come Out Of The Catholic Church. You really haven't read this have you? Go read it, and then tell me why it isn't a good enough explanation why you shouldn't come out of the Romish Church? But, John, even these groups are known to be Christian to their families, and have accepted Christ publicly, which you haven't. If you had, you would be kicked out your Romish Church!
Romans 10:9 gives the only requirement for salvation. Nothing else is required for salvation then what is stated in Romans 10:9. And if you keep stating to come out of the Catholic Church when one is Born Agian or one is not saved then you are denying Romans 10:9. I would be kicked out of the Catholic Church if they knew my religious beliefs. But they will never find out because it is none of their business what my beliefs are.
Quite easily John Y., if Catholics are true Christians, and know what you know, Come Out Of The Catholic Church You really haven't read this have you? Go read it, and then tell me why it isn't a good enough explanation why you shouldn't come out of the Romish Church? I mean for a Christian.
I have read complaints about Messianic (Christian) congregations. If they are like Spanish speaking groups, probably ok, if they want to remain completely Jewish and not be accepting of non-Jewish outsiders, then they need to be reworked. But, John, even these groups are known to be Christian to their families, and have accepted Christ publicly, which you haven't. If you had, you would be kicked out your Romish Church!
Jim Lincoln wrote: If SteveR is a Roman Catholic, he's lost!
Just who do you think you are anyway to state that there are no Catholics who are saved even if they have embraced Jesus as their Savior? Romans 10:9 states that whoever confesses Jesus as Lord and Savior without doing anything else is saved. But you add other requirements to salvation like leaving the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church and the Mainline Non Evangelical Protestant Churches and unite with an Evangelical Protestant Church.
As many of Gil Rugh's sermons of his latest series on Hebrews points out, and like Mike Gendron's comments in the One-World Religion URL above, Evangelicals need never to forget Rome is no ally! Now in the featured article of my first message, the writer was explaining Evangelicals to Jews. He emphasized we didn't believe that people were born into the Church, or were to be forced into it. Gil, and no doubt the writer of the featured article believes everyone including Jews need to go up The Roman Road.
First, lady and gentleman, read the message right before mine, from Alvin Crofts. He must have came and went before I got on SA, but what a fine summary in 1200 characters or less! He had the correct answer to Christian Zionists: The Real Terrorists? Lance was around when I got on SA, there are those Romists, though a rarity on the Internet, but seem to a little more common in real life, who you know and hate to see spend eternity in the Lake of Fire. actually, you should feel this way for all people, but its harder when someone is likeable. Oh to answer Lance's question, if he happens to come around, He should read, Is Modern Israel Fulfilling Prophecy?, which is most likely the case, and of course I would hope that he would read, Are We Really Catholic Bashing?. Anyway, the long article highlighted in my first message is excellent -- except for pointing out the error of Evangelicals going down the political trail like Mainliners.
penny wrote: yes, Jim brings us back to a time when the self proclaimed dispensational Zionist Cessationist Prophets tell us that "taking it to them" is helping out God's people. now looking back we see a litany of new programs that essentially ended the republic and millions of Christians in the ME continuing to suffer under the globalist jihad, which they care not about (which is probably receiving massive funding while national parks get fenced off). it was scofields last stand, Christians merging the gospel with Babylonian politics. a racial gospel will not stand the test of time. the covenant is singular, those grafted in are grafted in by faith.
I will not only agree, but add that Israelis have been abused by this theology as well. Graveyards in Israel are now full of those that didnt accept Christ. People that were encouraged by Christians rather than being preached to. Even Scofield didnt expect the generation that occupied Jerusalem to die without faith
Jims wicked theology has contributed untold grief for many whether through earthly dispossession, warfare or eternal perdition. Its the worst lie that has infected the Church in our generation
yes, Jim brings us back to a time when the self proclaimed dispensational Zionist Cessationist Prophets tell us that "taking it to them" is helping out God's people. now looking back we see a litany of new programs that essentially ended the republic and millions of Christians in the ME continuing to suffer under the globalist jihad, which they care not about (which is probably receiving massive funding while national parks get fenced off).
it was scofields last stand, Christians merging the gospel with Babylonian politics.
a racial gospel will not stand the test of time. the covenant is singular, those grafted in are grafted in by faith. and land does not change anyone's spiritual condition.... meanwhile Christians lose their land, and no one cares, because their affections are elsewhere. Jesus -- they will be known by the love of the brethren.
There is an excellent, though quite lengthy commentary on Christian Zionism at this site (No not my Church's which certainly supports Israel! e.g. sermon, Israel & the Church Remain Distinct ) But this article isn't done by my Church but is done by a Baptist, it really does go into depth on the topic of Christian Zionism. Cut out a block of time to read it Mosaic Magazine ¬Ľ Evangelicals and Israel
Actually it is unbelievable how far Constantinian's will go in their bias and hatred of Jews. Directly or indirectly not unlike blaming a woman for being raped. Ever read Rom 11:29? How about Rev 7 etc for that matter. Virtual Jews??? God repeatedly promises to never abandon Israel. Ever notice that Paul never stopped being an observant Jew in the book of Acts (and a Pharisee as well)? Some folks never read the first 2/3s of their bible and believes that all the promises were given to gentiles christians and that Jews warrant all of the curses. All the while believing that Christmas is a "holy day" and that "istar eggs" are "fun"! Never considering their pagan basis or the fact they have no prophetic value at all. Anyone not blinded by hatred or ignorance of the last 40 or so years can see that PLO does not want peace they want dead Jews. A large segment of the PLO are from Egypt (expelled there) and Jordan expeled there for attempting to take over the country and then Lebanon same thing. Yahweh of the Bible is not the pagan lunar god of islam. Despite what the Pontif hinted to. Read what Eze 40 on says about the Millenial Kingdom. Zech 14 about all flesh observing tabernacles. Jews are key and cornerstone to Gods plan.
Though I agree that mostly secular Israel cannot claim Deuteronomy 28's requirements for that land, I am puzzled what they could do to satisfy their neighbors. How do you negotiate with people who are trained (in their schools no less) to think that killing Jews is the highest religious obligation there is?
If anyone has a proven idea, let us know. Until then, I won't fault Israel for putting bullets into terrorists.
Was the promise of the land conditional on Israel's covenant faithfulness (Deuteronomy 28)? Furthermore, Christ is the faithful Israelite in whom the promises are fulfilled. In Him we are promised the whole earth, not just a land (Romans 4:13). If we maintain that Israel still has the promise of the land we undermine the fact that the promises are fulfilled in Christ. It is amazing how blind evangelicals can be to issues of basic morality when they believe that Biblical prophecy is being fulfilled. Israel needs a lot more pressure put on it to shape up.
God's covenant is a covenant of grace, unmerited by a sinner. The nation of Israel for the part is a nation of people who believe in works plus grace. There is that remnant by God's grace who will be saved, even as we gentile. In the final equation, it is a spiritual Israel that God covenants with.
Jos 21:43 ¬∂ And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein. 44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand. 45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.