To those of you still in the Roman Catholic system , and embrace all it teaches, Mary worship, etc: God has warned you what the future holds for you: but the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers,and whoremongers,and sorcerers, and idolators, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake of fire which burneth with fire and brimstone:which is the second death. Revelation 21:8 (please notice idolators and liars included)may it please the Lord to grant you repentance and saving faith dear people. As for the "God loves everybody" brigade who come these sites, how do you cope with scriptures like Psalm 5:5 and John 3:36 ? (one text from each testament for starters)
Sorry to one and all...I am not Catholic nor a great fan of Mother Theresa's BUT I think that headline for this one was blown WAY out of proportion...
Number one, it sounds to me like just a case of (self) doubt. I sure hope that FEELING "...God does not want me, that God is not God and that he does not really exist." isn't the unpardonable sin...I hope you all are honest enough to admit you have had your moments...whether she is a saint or not give her a break as human being...
Number two, to give one quote from 50 years ago and ONE other UNDATED quote and say she was "tormented by a crisis of belief for 50 years " seems to be stretching the truth at best.
Let us not be too eager to expose the faults and weaknesses of those we disagree with...even if we disagree with her theology (which I do ) let's not be part of a lynch mob, that can't be bothered with facts because our minds are made up...
My Dear Walt, surely you don't expect me to believe that a web site that is expressly Protestant, that hates everything that my Church stands for, somehow got hold of a "Secret Jesuit" document that confesses to every evil known to man. Please! If you want to believe in your brand of Christianity...knock yourself out. But when you pass on lies, may someone like me be there. Trish, you and I have a difference in opinion on what the Bible says, we always will. I appreciate your kindess, which is something I'm not used to on this site, it speaks well of you. With your prayers I'm sure to be in good hands. May God enlighten me if I fail, may he strenthen my resolve if I tell the truth. Amen.
"When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. He saith unto them, BUT WHOM SAY YE THAT I AM? And SIMON PETER ANSWERED and said, THOU ART THE CHRIST, THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, SIMON BARJONA: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That THOU ART PETER, AND UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I WILL GIVE UNTO THEE THE KEYS OF THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN: AND WHATSOEVER THOU SHALT BIND ON EARTH SHALL BE BOUND IN HEAVEN: AND WHATSOEVER THOU SHALT LOOSE ON EARTH SHALL BE LOOSED IN HEAVEN." (Matthew 16:13-19).
Beloved, here the Lord Jesus was speaking TO Simon Peter, but He was not speaking ABOUT Simon Peter. Jesus asked Simon Peter who he thought He was and Simon Peter answered, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." The reply Jesus gave him was concerning that Jesus is the Christ. Please note that in His reply, Jesus did not call Simon Peter "Simon Peter", but Simon Barjona which means "Simon, son of Jonah" (his father's name was Jonas). The name Peter (verse 18) means "little pebble". Jesus was not calling Peter the rock, He was calling Himself the rock based upon Peter's answer to His question! (Also see Matthew 7:24-25, Luke 6:48, Romans 9:33, 1 Corinthians 10:4, 1 Peter 2:8 for more on Jesus as our Rock.) The conclusion is that Jesus, not Peter, is the Rock.
During the conversation Jesus was speaking to the first church (the apostles), so then the keys to the kingdom of heaven were given to the church, not just Peter. The keys to the eternal kingdom is the gospel, the word of God. The new testament priesthood of believers was given the word of God to fulfill the great commission and lead others to Christ. It is salvation through Jesus Christ ALONE for the remission of our sins that saves us!
Keys need a door and Jesus is that door! "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that ENTERETH NOT BY THE DOOR into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. But he that ENTERETH IN BY THE DOOR is the shepherd of the sheep.... Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I AM THE DOOR OF THE SHEEP. All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. I AM THE DOOR: BY ME IF ANY MAN ENTER IN, HE SHALL BE SAVED, and shall go in and out, and find pasture" (John 10:1-2,7-9). John 10 is such a rich chapter. Not only does our Lord call Himself the Door, but He promises us eternal security if we trust in Him.
So what is bound and loosed on earth (verse 19)? Why, it's men's souls! The keys the Lord tells His followers He gave them are the keys to eternity. If someone repents of his/her sins and trusts completely in the finished work of Jesus on the cross, the Lord promises him/her "thou shalt be saved"! Isn't that precious?!
Dear D M, I hope and pray that this helps. I want you to know that I care for you and am concerned for your soul. I am praying for you.
This will be my final comment dear sir. You will get the last word.
Please search this site for the word "Jesuit". You can do this by going to the upper right hand corner, click on News and search for the word Jesuit. Now, please explain the Jesuit Oath listed at the bottom. I have not found any Roman Catholic who is willing to explain this document.
I ask that you read the document, it is a very evil document the the Vatican has designed for its internal "secret service". The secret oath sworn by all high level Jesuit priests.
My dear reader, the slaying of the faithful witnesses is forthcoming and Rome will come after all who hold to sola scriptura!
Mr. Stannard's counter-reformation will fail and Antichrist will be destroyed. Pray for any and all Christians inside the Church of Rome to come out during the next reformation. Our Lord is calling and commanding all Christians to come out from her sins.
Let's look at what the great reformers signed in the face of Popish tyranny. The National Covenant of Scotland was the high-water-mark of the first reformation (e.g., 1580-1610):
We all and every one of us under-written, protest, That, after long and due examination of our own consciences in matters of true and false religion, we are now thoroughly resolved in the truth by the word and Spirit of God: and therefore we believe with our hearts, confess with our mouths, subscribe with our hands, and constantly affirm, before God and the whole world, that this only is the true Christian faith and religion, pleasing God, and bringing salvation to man, which now is, by the mercy of God, revealed to the world by the preaching of the blessed evangel; and is received, believed, and defended by many and sundry notable kirks and realms, but chiefly by the kirk of Scotland, the King's Majesty, and three estates of this realm, as God's eternal truth, and Confession of our Faith, established and publickly confirmed by sundry acts of Parliaments, and now of a long time hath been openly professed by the King's Majesty, and whole body of this realm both in burgh and land. To the which Confession and Form of Religion we willingly agree in our conscience in all points, as unto God's undoubted truth and verity, grounded only upon his written word. And therefore we abhor and detest all contrary religion and doctrine; but chiefly all kind of Papistry in general and particular heads, even as they are now damned and confuted by the word of God and Kirk (Church) of Scotland. But, in special, we detest and refuse the usurped authority of that Roman Antichrist upon the scriptures of God, upon the kirk, the civil magistrate, and consciences of men; all his tyrannous laws made upon indifferent things against our Christian liberty; his erroneous doctrine against the sufficiency of the written word, the perfection of the law, the office of Christ, and his blessed evangel; his corrupted doctrine concerning original sin, our natural inability and rebellion to God's law, our justification by faith only, our imperfect sanctification and obedience to the law; the nature, number, and use of the holy sacraments; his five bastard sacraments, with all his rites, ceremonies, and false doctrine, added to the ministration of the true sacraments without the word of God; his cruel judgment against infants departing without the sacrament; his absolute necessity of baptism; his blasphemous opinion of transubstantiation, or real presence of Christ's body in the elements, and receiving of the same by the wicked, or bodies of men; his dispensations with solemn oaths, perjuries, and degrees of marriage forbidden in the word; his cruelty against the innocent divorced; his devilish mass; his blasphemous priesthood; his profane sacrifice for sins of the dead and the quick; his canonization of men; calling upon angels or saints departed, worshipping of imagery, relicks, and crosses; dedicating of kirks, alters, days; vows to creatures; his purgatory, prayers for the dead; praying or speaking in strange language, with his processions, and blasphemous litany, and multitude of advocates or mediators; his manifold orders, auricular confession; his desperate and uncertain repentance; his general and doubtsome faith; his satisfaction of men for their sins; his justification by works, opus operatum, works of supererogation, merits, pardons, peregrinations, and stations; his holy water, baptizing of bells, conjuring of spirits, crossing, sayning, anointing, conjuring, hallowing of God's good creatures, with the superstitious opinion joined therewith; his worldly monarchy, and wicked hierarchy; his three solemn vows, with all his shavelings of sundry sorts; his erroneous and bloody decrees made at Trent, with all the subscribers or approvers of that cruel and bloody band, conjured against the kirk of God. And finally, we detest all his vain allegories, rites, signs, and traditions brought in the kirk, without or against the word of God, and doctrine of this true reformed kirk; to the which we join ourselves willingly, in doctrine, faith, religion, discipline, and use of the holy sacraments, as lively members of the same in Christ our head: promising and swearing, by the great name of the LORD our GOD, that we shall continue in the obedience of the doctrine and discipline of this kirk, and shall defend the same, according to our vocation and power, all the days of our lives; under the pains contained in the law, and danger both of body and soul in the day of God's fearful judgment.
Note: The National Covenant of Scotland was subscribed in 1580, 1581, 1590, 1638, 1639, 1640, 1650 and 1651.
In conclusion, research this information for yourself. Do not take my words or those of Mr. Stannard. Our duty is first and foremost to God.
"Again presuppostion" you say, but have I been wrong so far about my "prsuppositons", Nope! Its not true that what you say about sola scritura makes no difference to me, what does make a difference is that I believe it to be wrong and not supported by the Bible itself. Also I am not "consumed" by my R. C. Tradition, I believe it to be correct and supported by Scripture. I am "consumed" by my search for the Truth, and Truth is on my side here, along with 2000 years of Good Catholic Teaching. I don't care if you disagree, I do care If you condemn us a servants of Satan, because I hate lies, especially Slanderous lies. And you should beware on condemning anyone for your owe souls sake. Mr Meng thought that following the Lords commands, what I call obedience, was somehow "works salvation". If it is "works salvation" then its Jesus doing all the work. You suggest that I learn about "my presuppositions" by adopting your Calvinistic point of view, along with your historical bias and vocabulary. I don't think so. You are always preaching about the Bible alone, try this on for size. The Bible alone says that Peter was declared the "Rock" by Jesus Christ, and given the key of Heaven, thus allowing Peter to exercise Authority over the earthly Church in Jesus's stead. Your problem is not the "Bible alone", your problem is your failure to ascertain its meaning correctly. Further, I have no need to mislead the reader as you seem to be, for the Deuterocanonicals were listed as part of the Canon by Pope Damasus at the Council of Rome in 382 AD. By St Augustine in his "Christian Instruction 2:8:13, in 397 AD. By St Jerome in his writings "Against Rufinius 11:33 in 401 AD. You already know it is a sin to "add" to Scripture, But did you know that its a sin to "subtract" also? I don't care if my celebration of the Lords birth has warrant in Scripture or not, its between he and I, your opinion is of no importance. I pray for a second Counter-Reformation. Merry Christmas in spite of your negativity, Walt.
Again, presupposition! Whatever I say regarding sola scriptura makes no difference to you. Your Roman Catholic tradition has consumed you.
Benjamin Meng gave you several canons identifying a most serious error in your religious tradition (e.g., salvation through baptism and the sacraments). Millions of Roman Catholic followers will expire this life believing that their water baptism saved them. I know several people dear to me that refuse to look at scripture alone on the topic of salvation, but only believe in their church tradition. Like you, they too have been Roman Catholic their whole lives.
Before you lump all Protestants under one umbrella, I suggest that you learn and study your presuppositions. You need to compare the governance structure and form of worship, doctrine and church discipline between the Papacy (e.g., church tradition and papal edits equal to scripture), Erastianism (e.g., licentious toleration), Episcopacy and Prelacy (e.g., monarchical despotism and kingly rule of Christ's church), Congregationalism (e.g., popular democracy), Independency (local church governance with no appeal process...a popish system of church government), Arminianism (e.g., free-will salvation and man centered decisions), Antinomianism (e.g., no moral law under grace), Sectarianism and non-denominationalism (e.g., charismatic rapture theory, pre-millennial and amillennialism, latitudinarianism, open admission to the Lord's Table and no written terms of communion).
Your Roman Catholic claim to control of scripture and bloody terror during the dark and middle ages is not refuted by me. The possible beginnings of Roman Papal Antichrist in the year 752 is nearly in the middle of that period (clarification: must be identified in the Psalms and Minor Prophets and the few Christian scholars I respect will set dates until we can find it in scripture alone).
Please don't try to confuse the casual reader. The apocryphal books were never declared part of the canon of scripture. They were declared by the reformers as equal to other human writings. "3. The books commonly called Apocrypha, not being of divine inspiration, are no part of the canon of Scripture; and therefore are of no authority in the church of God, nor to be any otherwise approved, or made use of, than other human writings (Lk.24:27 and 44, Rom.3:2, 2Pet.1:21)." Westminister Confession of Faith, Chapter 1, #3, 1647.
Finally, your worship of our Lord's birth has no warrant in scripture, but only in your tradition. Your holy days are many and varied in the Church of Rome. Your celebrations and feast days have covered the earth. For those dear readers who do not understand Mr. Stannard's presupposition and epistemology, our Lord commands you in scripture alone, "Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities."
Pray for a third reformation dear friends, please pray.
I know Walt that whatever I say will make no difference to you. But, that are certain things that I would like to make you aware of. Prayer for the dead was not invented by the RCC, but comes from Judism. It is made reference to in the 1 book of Maccabees. Now, you are gonna say that this book is not Inspired, but many early Church Fathers, including St Jerome and St Augustine say that it was. From the late 4th century until the Reformation no one objected to the Deuterocanonic books. They were included in the King James Bible until the early 19th century. We adore no creature but the Lord High God in all of his (3) personalities. Protestants have done their part in butchering Christian people in Ireland and England especially. It was punishable by death to be Catholic in England from the time of James I until 1829. So don't hand me this "Bull" about how bloody we were, you were just as bloody. Jesus was never my stumbling block, so don't think you're to only ones to accept him. I believe in Scripture alone, in both of its forms Written and Oral. And I believe in Jesus as my savior alone. I know that you wish me well, so I wish you and yours well, Merry Christmas.
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead (Lk.16:24-31).
Mr. Stannard, if one had the time and patience, one could search google to find all of the information one would ever want to learn about the Vatican in Rome. Like me, and perhaps you too, one could fly to Rome and study her history and see for themselves her daily prayers for the dead, her adoration and mediation of priests and Mary, her brutal and bloody past against Christ's faithful witnesses. One could learn these basic tenants of history.
However, like the rich man above, Abraham speaking (through scripture alone), identifies the problem. The problem is obvious and absolute in each of us.
It is our individual presuppositions. Our epistemological self-consciousness. It simply means: how do we know what we know and why?
Until we reach this fundamental turning point in our own lives, all the evidence and faithful historical testminoy, whether Scriptural or written chiefly of man, will mean nothing. We are no better than the rich man reaching out to Abraham. It is scripture alone. It is Jesus Christ alone.
This is my best shot and I pray that it will not be a stumbling block to your faith.
And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel. For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me. I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it (Isa.45:3-8).
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord (Rom.8:33-39).
Ok, Walt... Give me the testimonies, and edicts, commentaries and rulings and proof that Sola Scriptura is correct. I have been a Catholic my "Whole" life, but let it never be said that I didn't give the other side a fair chance. Hit me with your best shot!
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities (Rev. 18:4-5).
This is the fundamental question for all Roman Catholics to answer.
5. The purest Churches under heaven are subject both to mixture and error (1Cor.13:2, Rev.2&3, Matt.13:24-30,47): and some have so degenerated, as to become no Churches of Christ, but synagogues of Satan (Rev.18:2, Rom.11:18-22). Nevertheless, there shall always be a Church on earth, to worship God according to His will (Matt.16:18, Ps.72:17, Ps.102:28, Matt.28:19-20).
6. There is no other head of the Church, but the Lord Jesus Christ (Col.1:18, Eph.1:22); nor can the Pope of Rome, in any sense, be head thereof; but is that Antichrist, that man of sin, and son of perdition, that exalteth himself, in the Church, against Christ and all that is called God (Matt.23:8-10, 2Thess.2:3-4,8-9, Rev.13:6).
The Westminister Divines wrote those words in their Confession to the world in 1646, ratified in 1647 by the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland.
4. The authority of the Holy Scripture, for which it ought to be believed and obeyed, dependeth not upon the testimony of any man, or Church; but wholly upon God (who is truth itself) the author thereof: and therefore it is to be received because it is the word of God (2Pet.1:19&21, 2Tim.3:16, 1Jn.5:9, 1Thess.2:13).
9. The infallible rule of interpretation of Scripture is the Scripture itself; and therefore, when there is a question about the true and full sense of any Scripture (which is not manifold, but one) it must be searched and known by other places that speak more clearly (2Pet.1:20-21, Acts.15:15-16).
10. The supreme judge by which all controversies of religion are to be determined, and all decrees of councils, opinions of ancient writers, doctrines of men, and private spirits, are to be examined; and in whose sentence we are to rest; can be no other but the Holy Spirit speaking in the Scripture (Matt.22:29&31, Eph.2:20 with Acts.28:25).
Mr. Stannard is a well meaning Catholic who has not studied the testimonies and edicts of his church. His presupposition is rooted in Roman Catholic tradition, but he has yet to dig deep into her commentary and rulings to understand why the reformers and greatest teachers (through sermons) taught she is indeed Antichrist.
She separates her people from the purity of sola scriptura and for this her people perish.
As a former Roman Catholic most of my entire life, this I do know!
When I said that I hoped that Mother Theresa remained faithful. I meant that I hoped she remainded faithful to Jesus. Jesus says that "no one can pluck you from my hand", and I believe this, but I also believe that a person can jump from his hand. If She gave in to these doubts, to the point of giving up her Faith in the power of the Lord to save her. Then it looks really bad for her Salvation. But, only God knows her heart, and he is merciful. She's in the best hands in the Universe. To answer the other question honestly, I don't know. My wife who is Southern Baptist thinks I'm crazy. Hey, If you want to pray for me, be my guest. If what I say is a lie, may he knock out my ISP. bssttt...bsss...bstt.....
Hey guys, I as a former catholic was once lost and blinded just like DM, but you know what? Jesus loves DM so much that he gave up his life on the cross, and until DM realizes such fact revealed by The Holy Spirit to his heart, then and only then will DM's smokescreen will go away. Let's pray for DM and while were at it pray also for my family for I have a great task this christmas gathering season. I am preparing a drama to deliver the gospel in a clean and uncorrupted manner.
I'd like to see an answer to one of Trish's last questions...DM, why do you waste your time here? You spend a great deal of time reading commentary and news articles on a site that is clearly not of the teaching of Rome. Why do you come here? Are you looking for a way out of her?
It's still true. Nowhere does the Scriptures state that it is the only source of Gods words. Thanks Trish, you made my next point. Faith comes by hearing, this is how Jesus and the Apostles taught, for a word to be "heard" it must be spoken. The Bible is the written word of God and Holy Tradition is the spoken word of God. For the Tradition to be truely Tradition it can't conflict with Scripture. Some of Jesus's words were written, but much more were repeated by Religious teachers down through the centuries. "...hold fast to the traditions just as I handed them on to you (1 Cor 11:1-2). "Therefore, brothers, stand firm. Hold fast to the traditions you received from us,either by our word or by letter. (2 Thess 2:15). The some Pharisaic tradition negated Gods word, true Tradition is Gods spoken word passed from teacher to teacher. If the Tradition comes originally from the teachings of Jesus, then they lead to obedience. I think that you owe me an apology, but I won't hold my breath. So for 1500 years Catholics and Greek Orthodox have taught similar things, if Luther, Calvin and Knox came later and taught a different Gospel than ours, maybe you should listen to Galat 1:6-9. Walt said that the traditions and "forms" of worship must be compared to Scripture alone. While he is right about Tradition, it must be checked against the Scripture, nowhere do I read an injunction against worship according to the Roman rite. My times is not wasted as long as I can be near you, Trish.
I would also like to add a rebuttle to DM's comments to Benjamin.
God does give us instructions as to how we are to worship him. Hebrews 10:25 states that we are not to go about "... forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is....", so we are to assemble ourselves together in worship. We are also to use psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs (see Ephesians 5:19 and Colossians 3:16).
DM, I'd like to know what you meant when you said "For her sake I hope that she remained faithful."
One more question, why do you waste your time here, DM?