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"It is relatively rare that North Korea arrests a foreign national, even rarer when one considers that a company like Nations Tour is hardly unique. The so-called â€śBusiness as Missionâ€ť movement, which instructs devout Christians to set up companies as vehicles for spiritual outreach, dates back to the 18th century but found new life at the beginning of the 21st. Itâ€™s a missionary model that, by definition, assumes a certain amount of risk for those setting out to reach the â€śunreached.â€ť But the risks havenâ€™t dissuaded the faithful from taking up the cause. Today, there is an extensive, well-financed network of for-profit missions, using shadowy front companies to evangelize in North Korea. Though precise numbers are impossible to pin down, missionary-businesspeople have set up a staggering breadth of enterprises, including tour agencies, bakeries, factories, farms, even schools and orphanages, all in the name of spreading the Good Word." http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2013/11/christian_missionaries_in_north_korea_inside_the_front_companies_christians.html
Mike wrote: Yet one of the Roman occupiers was called a just man who feared God. Somehow it must have got left out of Scripture the part where he was told he shouldn't be carrying assault swords and military hardware in the community.
Society requires protection from and in a fallen world so God allows the military in all its forms.
What God does not provide for in Scripture is the potential to arm everybody in the nation to administer assault rifle "justice" to criminals, as many posters have advocated.
The potential held in the so called "Right to bear arms" and the potential provided in the myriad American arsenal shopping facilities is America's deadliest societal philosophy. This is constantly proven in mass murders and the daily shooting of people all over the USA.
Lurker wrote: And what of your moniker.... "there is hope"? ... a hint of a Christian perspective from you regarding the right to bear arms in this country.
Talking about monikers! Is "Lurker" demonstrative of what you specifically are trying to convey in all your posts?
Re: "Christian perspective" That is what I am posting because I am a Christian. After all the Bible illustrates that we are not to advocate walking around with assault rifles and other military hardware in our community.
Try as I might I can't find Jesus or Paul or anybody teaching, that as Christians we are to implore and impel our neighbours and children to arm themselves to the teeth to convey justice in the community. Which verse do you find "assault rifle" in?
ps Ever read "43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; Matt 5. = You see nothing about assault rifle as justice?
Kyle wrote: I mean, if you were not the victim of a crime, nobody ever will be ...
Ginsmith wrote: A right that was put there from the beginning in order to protect the people from an oppressive government
Ah so it is to shoot the politicians that the "right to bear" was established. So I was right saying that arming y'all with assault rifles is about American justice. __________
Mike wrote: You brought up the gangsters of the early 20th century.
The point dear Mike, was to illustrate that the abundance and availability of guns is a historic mind-set in the USA. One which today has become a huge retail industry and profitable enterprise for y'all. ________
Lurker wrote: But, honestly, you are wasting your oxygen arguing against the right to bear arms in the USA
Thankyou for your honesty Lurker. But I don't expect to change America's Constitution, nor do I think America will, it's only a debate for me. I have actually never owned a gun of any description in my life, nor saw the need for it. We do not have gun stores here except for shotguns for those who need them such as farmers, gamekeepers etc.
As for personal protection from all these gun-toting criminals, well I've been all over the world, even to the USA, and never held or used a gun. Amazin eh?
Unprofitable Servant wrote: 1. You have no answer to the fact that Washington D.C. has the toughest gun control laws in our country
2. Gun control does work, it works to give an advantage to the criminals
3. So, I am respectfully dropping out of any further responses on this story
1. As for Washington - All the folks have to do is drive to the nearest gun store in another state. Since there are hundreds of thousands of arsenals to choose from then getting your own personal assault rifle is no prob!!! # As for answers. You have no answer to the fact that in my country we don't have local arsenals all over the nation. And we don't display the same regular "Sandy Hook" which your country does.
2. "Gun control???" In other words a little bureaucracy - BUT still the same access to military hardware. You are kidding arn't you? Remove the stores and remove the guns! That will save lives whether by the act of a criminal; - or by noncriminals who become criminals by virtue of the crime of shooting people because of the easy access of guns and the weapons mind set of America.
3. Bye for now. Thanks for the discussion.
Remember guns do not provide an alternative to justice in a society.
Lurker wrote: 1. Shallow thinking. 2. God has withdrawn His blessings from this once great nation 3. through all the unbearable grief the loved ones of the 26 teachers and children killed at Sandy Hook are burdened with, one may eventually call upon the name of Jesus
1. Thank you "Christian."??
2. So the mass slaughter of those children is a sign of the quote, withdrawl of His blessings? And assault rifles are meant for good?
3. And Sandy Hook was the Lord doing His bit for evangelising the parents? I guess you also teach that God no longer uses the Bible as the sword(assault rifle)?? ______________
Mike wrote: 1. rubbish 2. Pointing to Europe as model 3. preach self-righteous uninformed claptrap
1. Obviously you question the stats??? And your erudite conclusion is quote "rubbish" - My compliments on your great knowledge.
2. "history"??? What are you bringing that up for, whether European or American??? What about American? 18/19th century Cowboys and indians slaughtered many. Early 20th century Gangsters slaughtered many. Now everybody wants an armory of machine guns to "operate" the justice of America??
3. Self-righteous?? Tell that to Sandy Hook six year olds and the next Sandy Hook
Unprofitable Servant wrote: Only the naive, sorry to say, thinks that if guns were outlawed society would be safer. Not only is there NO proof of such a thing, history indicates just the opposite.
Unprof You're not keeping up with the facts on this debate. Here is a repeat of information I already provided to educate you on the murderous nature of the puruit of America to legalize military style hardware for everybody there.
Quote; "19.5/1 = Ratio of people killed by guns in the U.S. compared to other developed countries in the OECD. For 15-to-20-year-olds, firearm homicide rates in the U.S. are 42.7 times higher than in other OECD countries, according to a 2011 UCLA School of Public Health study." [businessinsider.com]
You get the gist UpS??? nearly 20 to 1 ratio with the other developed (mainly European) countries.
America is culpable and badly needs to stop the slaughter of kids and others by mass murder.
Remove the problem is the obvious solution.
That problem is hundreds of thousands of retail outlets full to the brim with military style assault rifles and other hardware.
Don't ignore the facts - Six year old kids are being slaughtered becaue of America's "right to bear arms."
...law enforcement officer NYC wrote: Who on this board is replacing justice with a gun? I don't see anyone doing that. What I see on my job Ina regular basis is home invasions where unarmed law abiding citizens are gunned down by a criminal
One of the things that the people could do to make your job easier is to remove the hundreds of thousands of gun-store military style arsenals which are populating America's shopping centre's.
Obviously your criminal element finds it very easy in America to procure and obtain assault rifles, guns and all kinds of military weapons to make their activities that much more violent and dangerous. Less access - Less gun stores - Less military style violence on your streets.
The obvious easy access to assault weapons and other military hardware in your local shop is indicative of the American mind-set which is - "justice can be obtained/maintained by everybody being armed to the teeth." Viz: "Justice by guns"
Did it occur to anyone that maybe Christ doesn't want His Holy name associated with such a pagan holiday. Maybe the world is doing us a favor and getting back to obeying the word and command of God to worship him in the ways He prescribed. Nowhere in scritpure did He ever command us to worship the day of His birth or else He would have given us the exact day and time. Yet the Romish church sought fitting to assimilate the day of Dec. 25 in occurdance with the Pagan holidays as the birth of Christ.
P. Resby wrote: The concept that every millimetre of the flesh must be touched by water in Baptism, (to make it genuine), is contrived and not Scripturally valid.
Perhaps it is taken from the following where the Greek word βαψη, βαψας and βεβαμμενον which is derived from the root word βάπτω are used and translated dip, dipped.
(Luk 16:24) And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
(Joh 13:26) Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon.
(Rev 19:13) And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
I think you are right though, more emphasis is placed on the mode rather what it symbolizes, union with Christ. We are buried with Him by baptism, His Spirit is poured out on us and our sins were washed by the sprinkling of His precious blood on the alter as the atonement for our sins.
I wonder if he would associate himself with Peter Ruckman and his heretical teachings. Afterall Ruckman is an independant fundamental Baptist.
If you notice, he will not systematically debate a topic. He will not present scriptural arguments to define his position, he just changes the subject or pulls out the red herring Michael Servetus mantra.
Much of what we call revivals today are superficial because most professing Christians are just that. They profess without being possessors. When God brought revival, lives were changed by the power of God and stuck. Not just a bunch of decisions that lasted two weeks then went back to the norm.
Any time Michael is confronted with biblical truths, he accuses them of wanting to argue.
To the unregenerate sinner, there is nothing desireable in a holy and righteous God because they love the darkness and their sins. Their deeds are evil. By nature they are haters and enemies of God. They want nothing of His laws and righteousness.
When God regenerates them, gives them a new heart and quickens their spirit, only then can they see and comprehend the everlasting love of God and desire Him for who He is. They see the sacrificial love of Jesus as he hung on the cross of Calvary to pay their own sin debt. Before regeneration it was all fooloshness to them, but after regeneration, they see it as the power of God unto salvation.
Michael Hranek wrote: No! I have to think that even though sinners love their sin it is quite shameful to make God out to be so undesireable to a sinner under conviction of the Holy Spirit and the Word of God that God has to force Himself upon them against their will.
Michael, conviction alone does not equal salvation. Many sinners get under convition but never come to repentance and saving faith. Why? Repentance and faith is a sovereign work of God in the hearts of His elect to draw them to the saving knowledge of His Son. It is not something you conjour up yourself.
What you don't realize Michael is that God is completely just in passing over some and withholding His saving grace. You seem to think that God somehow owes you the right to be saved.
He will save ALL who come to Him in genuine repentance and true saving faith in the sacrificial death of His Son in paying the sin debt.
Michael Hranek wrote: DJC49 So as a 'good Calvinist' you really can't be that sure that even yourself are one of Predestinated elect can you.
Are you trying to tell me that in the mind of the "Calvinist" God is so undesirable with nothing to merit Himself to those He wants to save, that He must force Himself upon the Predestinated because "certain Calvinists" cannot imagine wretched lost sinners, knowing they are sinners, knowing they deserve the punishment of hell forever, that they would ever want the Lord Jesus Christ to save them from their sins but find Him utterly repulsive?
That is the problem according to John 3:19-20
v19 "And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and ***men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.***"
v20 "For every one that doeth evil ***hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.***"
Did you get that. Men are by nature wicked and there is nothing they desire in a holy and righteous God. They love their sin and happy to dwell in them rather than coming to the light of God's holiness and having their sins exposed. if salvation were soley left to sinful man, no one would be saved.
lyn wrote: Angela, God bless you! excellent post! There is hope- you said, "perhaps God will raise up in this generation another John Knox, Zwingli and Calvin who recovered the old truths and preached the sovereignty of God and repentance of sin in the world"...He has! I encourage all to listen to Paul Washer's 'the ten indictments' found here. Also, he has a study entitled 'the One True God' found at heartcrymissionary.com/resources/online_books Thus saith the Lord,"Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls" Jer. 6:16
Lyn, Mmy wife and I listened to the whole 2 hour sermon Sunday afternoon. It only seemed like 20 minutes. He hammered right on the issues that we are facing in the modern conservative, fundamental evangelical church. When you give out the wrong, easy believism, no repentance gospel, you reap false Christians, thus an unregenerate church which is a mockery to God.
It may be petty, but if Bro. Washer wants to preach the old paths, he needs to use the od Book, not the NASB. Most fundamental baptist preachers will not even bother to listen to him simply on those grounds and they are the ones who need to hear it the most.
Excellent comments from lyn | usa, mh488 and Mark M.|GA in the USA.
We can blame no one but ourselves. God has commanded us in scripture to pray for our leaders and all those in authority. This is where I myself have failed. God has been gracious to bless our nation in spite of the sins of His people. Perhaps Obama is a God-send to bring His chosen ones back to true biblical repentance and faith. Our churches have spread the lies of no repentance and no Lordship easy believism to get their churches to grow. Now we have a visible church of lost, unregenerate members who are duped into thinking that they are saved and that somehow they will be raptured before the tribulation comes. Judgement begins in the house of God, not with the world. Perhaps God wil raise up in this generation another John Knox, Zwingli and Calvin who recovered the old truths and preached the sovereignty of God and repentance of sin to the world.
WOW! All I can say is WOW! My wife and I just finished listening to this sermon and we can see how sad the state of our modern fundamental churches has become. Scripture warns that judgment begins in the house of God. My wife went 25 years thinking that she was saved because she said a "sinner's prayer" and struggled with her salvation all of those years. It was not until the Holy Spirit quickened her and regenerated her that she came to a place of repentance and true saving faith. There is now evidence of that new creation God wrought in her. Now she desires to know more of God and desires to be obedient in serving him the right way. Thank you Bro. Paul for this God sent message to the church.
Michael Hranek wrote: John 11 25 Jesus said to her, â€śI am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?â€ť Oops!!! He who believes in Me. I think I will simply believe Jesus thank you very much.
MH, your bible has a typo, it states "though he may die"
It is correctly written:
John 11:25 "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, *** though HE WERE DEAD, yet shall he live:
Resurrection of life comes before believing.
Joh 11:26 And whosoever ***liveth*** and *** believeth *** in me shall never die. Believest thou this?