Not your pope wrote: This is a recurring and unending theme. We are bewitched by massive wealth, technology (i.e., The (abortifacient) Pill, flat screens) and selfishness. God have mercy upon us sinners.
nyp Never mind worrying about the decline observed in western society today.
Look at the Roman Catholic "church?" - They lost their Biblical religion centuries ago.
Of course God anticipated their pernicious unBiblical ways (2Peter2)and ordained the 16th century Reformation. Praise be to God!
"Isaiah 44:9 They that make a graven image are all of them vanity; and their delectable things shall not profit; and they are their own witnesses; they see not, nor know; that they may be ashamed. 10 Who hath formed a god, or molten a graven image that is profitable for nothing? 11 Behold, all his fellows shall be ashamed: and the workmen, they are of men: let them all be gathered together, let them stand up; yet they shall fear, and they shall be ashamed together."
Jim Lincoln wrote: The makeup of any Bible translation team that is entirely British, as far as I have seen, has always led to an inferior version of the Bible. The KJV is a prime example.
OH Really Yank!!!!!
And just where WAS America in 1611 when GOD translated the Bible into english??? IN BRITAIN!
Thats when BRITAIN was in charge of the colonies sunbeam!!! When Your ancestors were subjects of a real British King!
GOD used the KING JAMES VERSION from then to build America its churches and its people. AND continues to use it to teach and preach true doctrine to His true elect today.
You cannot say that about your corrupt NASB and its Liberal ANGLICAN writers, can you Jim!!!
On Westcott and Horts criminal Greek Text.... "To cast away at least nineteen-twentieths of the evidence on points and to draw conclusions from the petty remainder, seems to us to be necessarily not less even than a crime and a sin, and only by reason of the sacrilegious destructiveness exercised thereby upon Holy Writ, but also because such a method is inconsistent with conscientious exhaustiveness and logical method." [Dean Burgon, The Traditional Text, p. xii]"
DisplacedMaritimer (Bert) wrote: The Catholic Church has been around for more than twice the time the Protestant Churches have been. During that time, the Catholic interpretation was the ONLY interpretation. Other issues like salvation by faith AND works are Biblical.
Bert, The cast iron curtain you have placed in history between the RCC and the Protestant church is not an ongoing impenetrable theological curtain, in preReformation history. Many of the errors which have grown in the Protestant Church are similar to the RCC errors. EG. salvation by works is a protestant theory for many too!
As for the RCC's long history. One can detect the splits of theological doctrine from the beginning. One case in point being the polemics between Augustine and Pelagius, (and subsequently Cassian) which created two paths for the then 'one' organised church. Augustine was of course correct in his doctrine (Sovereignty of God. Man 'dead' spiritually unable in sin) and Pelagius/Cassian led the way to "salvation by human input" (works) of some type or another. We call this 'Arminian' in Protestant ecclesia.
DisplacedMaritimer (Bert) wrote: 1] those hearing it were illiterate.
2] I just believe that the Word of God is for everyone.
3] If you have to use complex grammatical terminology to support your favorite interpretation of a passage
I'd say your #2 cancels your #1. By your representation you suggest that "reading" Scripture is for the illiterate also??? (Contradiction in terms)? But you have set up a strawman!
If you wish to discuss evangelism then God sends His called teachers/evangelists to all peoples.
BUT THAT is not what we were talking about.
Your #3 above is more to the point. However I can see that it describes your church as well as mine. Or do you suggest that the RCC does not have theologians, dogma and doctrines?
I quoted Calvin on Matt 16:18,19 re Peter. The RC say in their interpretation here that this verse qualifies Peter as pope and subsequentley to all popes after him.
That is NOT true. This is an erroneous reading of Scripture.
Even to say that the, "office called pope" as it has unfolded through history is defined in Scripture 'anywhere' is a fallacy and deceit. Just as your version of what a 'saint' is and how they come into being is RC manmade doctrine and UNBiblical!
"All that was given to him, (Peter) therefore, must be limited to the measure of grace which he received for the edification of the Church; and so that vast dominion, which the Papists claim for him, falls to the ground.
But though there were no strife or controversy about Peter, still this passage would not lend countenance to the tyranny of the Pope. For no man in his senses will admit the principle which the Papists take for granted, that what is here granted to Peter was intended to be transmitted by him to posterity by hereditary right; for he does not receive permission to give any thing to his successors. So then the Papists make him bountiful with what is not his own.
Finally, though the uninterrupted succession were fully established, still the Pope will gain nothing by it till he has proved himself to be Peter's lawful successor. And how does he prove it? Because Peter died at Rome; as if Rome, by the detestable murder of the Apostle, had procured for herself the primacy. But they allege that he was also bishop there. How frivolous that allegation is." (J.Calvin)
DisplacedMaritimer (Bert) wrote: The problem I see with dissertations like the one you quote by Mr. Calvin is that they are just too complicated. Heaven is not closed to the illiterate or simple minded. Therefore, the Word of God is to be embraced and understood by all - not just those fortunate enough to be literate and smart. When you start complicating the Word of God in order to support your own interpretation of that Word, you end up drastically reducing the number of people who can understand it. Jesus sent the Apostles forth to spread the Word of God not to make it so difficult to understand that you need a PhD to embrace it. The Word of God says what it says. If you have to go through mental gymnastics to get it to support your favorite interpretation of a particular passage, I submit to you that you are on the wrong path.....
If you make the Word of God too complicated for the children to learn, what have you accomplished, God's work or satan's?
So what you're saying Bert is Roman Catholics can read the Bible - and Protestants can't!!!
Guess what Bert we agree on the dichotomy of being able to read Scripture - BUT we disagree on who can! Thus Roman Catholics are in error. Protestants and Calvin are correct.
DisplacedMaritimer (Bert) wrote: talking to Peter alone
"But it will be said, Christ addresses Peter alone: he does so, because Peter alone, in the name of all, had confessed Christ to be the Son of God, and to him alone is addressed the discourse, which applies equally to the rest. And the reason adduced by Cyprian and others is not to be despised, that Christ spake to all in the person of one man, in order to recommend the unity of the Church. They reply, that he to whom this privilege was granted in a peculiar manner is preferred to all others. But that is equivalent to saying that he was more an apostle than his companions; for the power to bind and to loose can no more be separated from the office of teaching and the Apostleship than light or heat can be separated from the sun. And even granting that something more was bestowed on Peter than on the rest, that he might hold a distinguished place among the Apostles, it is a foolish inference of the Papists, that he received the primacy, and became the universal head of the whole Church. Rank is a different thing from power, and to be elevated to the highest place of honor among a few persons is a different thing from embracing the whole world under his dominion"(J Calvin)
Mike wrote: "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." ""He." He himself, emphatic personal pronoun. "Propitiation."
You can take this verse and every other verse in the Bible and break it up into whatever "doctrinal slant" you wish.
But at the end of it all is 1. God's in charge. 2. Man is His creature made By Him His way for His purpose. 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 3. As to who gets into heaven and how and why - that in the final analysis is God's decision alone. 4. As to how the creature can or may "contribute" also depends on the Creator. 5. Mortal input is and always was a moot point. But election is ultimately a divine choice and the sinners are all the same, nothing endearing God to any of them. 6. God owes no man anything. 7. God's ability to see today tomorrow or whatever the future beholds is infinitely beyond that of man. He then will make His decisions in a way which man has no cognizance of nor control over. Amen.
phoenixbrew wrote: The "buybull" is just a book, it's no excuse for hating gay people. Ignorant people would use the same fairy tale book to hate people of color. There is no excuse for hating people because they are different from the so-called norm.
There are just two types of people in the world  those who are saved by Christ unto eternal life in heaven. These are the folks whom GOD gives the ability to receive the Truth from His Holy Word the Bible.
 Those who are NOT going to heaven but to eternal damnation in hell. These people can't receive the Truth from Scripture.
GOD Stated..... " If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." Leciticus 20:13.
TheRealFacts wrote: His evil nature is in bondage to his will.
Another "free will" advocate who would do salvation by human effort. Are you Roman Catholic or Roman (Arminian) Catholic or Roman (non-Reformed) Catholic or just plain old Roman (DIY salvation) Catholic.
"Man's depravity, as a result of the Fall, is total. All men are born into this world spiritually dead, blind, and deaf to the things of God; the sinner's heart is desperately corrupt. His will is not free; it is in bondage to his evil nature. Therefore, he has lost his ability to choose good over evil in the spiritual realm. It takes more than the Spirit's assistance to bring the sinner to Christ -it takes regeneration by which the Spirit makes the sinner alive and gives him a new nature. Faith is not something man contributes to salvation but is itself a part of God's gift of salvation - it is God's gift to the sinner, not the sinner's gift to God."
Psalm 51:5, 58:3; Isaiah 53:6, 64:6; Jeremiah 17:9; John 3:3, 8:44; Romans 3:10-12, 5:12; Ephesians 2:2-3; I Corinthians 2:14