Ladybug. I must clarify my thoughts. The example I gave about paying someone's fine who might not want it payed was a logical example of what could be the case. That doesn't mean I believe 100% that it is the case. Again, I want the whole bible to be presented without a certain "camp" ignoring verses or explaining them away as though they don't mean what they mean. I believe we all should have our wilderness experience with our God without the influence of commentaries and such. Then we can approve or disapprove what others may bring to our ears. To often people don't do this. I think it is of the utmost importance for us all. When it comes to discussions like this I won't try to explain the mind of God as though I'm giving a fact. I might be wrong. And I have too much reverence for him to do that when I'm not certain of something. I could accept what theologians say about something because it seems logical, but I would just be repeating what they say. I have done this before, but won't anymore. So, to say, I believe this... and you believe that... isn't really the case with this matter. Hope that clears things up Maybe not
Ladybug... I desire peace between us. I believe you to be a sister, and I hope you believe me to be a brother. There are things that God has revealed to me, and there are things he hasn't. Does that make me a baby. I don't think so. But some might say yes. How you think I understand this matter is not correct. I simply give the scriptures and accept them as they are.
Just because I pay someone's fine so they can get out of jail doesn't mean that they don't want to remain a criminal and go commit crimes and go right back to jail. In fact, they can tell me "thanks, but no thanks". In this case they are still guilty even though I offered them freedom. Is this not logical?
I thank God that he gave me a humble heart to accept this payment. costly as it was.
John 17:20 I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word. 21 That they may all be one,just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.
Tulip... here is the difference. You say, "The calvinist doctrine", "The calvinist doctrine", "The calvinist doctrine". Nobody here is saying, "The arminian doctrine". Also, nobody here would dispute john 17:9. Nobody here is disputing election. Election is biblical. So is this... 1 john 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. There many more like this, as there are many more like you quoted.
I will not cherry pick the bible. Give me the whole bible.
Acts 17(addressing the Areopagus) 26 And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place, that they should seek God,in the hope that they might feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us. For in him we live and move and have our being; as even some of your poets have said, "for we are indeed his offspring" (May I add, Paul is speaking of pagan poets) 29 being then God's offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man. (May I add that Paul started by telling them of a pagan alter he saw in Athens that stated "to the unknown god". What therefore you worship as unknown, this I proclaim to you.) 30 the times of ignorance God overlooked, BUT NOW HE COMMANDS ALL PEOPLE EVERYWHERE TO REPENT,because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.
I wonder how much of what is being said on this thread is merely preaching to the converted?
Gs... what the spirit speaks to our heart, is the answer to your question. let not your conscience be defiled in the matter. beware of those who would advise you with political leanings. And to tell you the truth, I think the answer is contained in your question.
Thankfully, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. For whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his own works as God did from his. Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience.