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A godly form of banking might start with all righteousness being fulfilled, where the Scriptures are the backing of the currency. Jeremiah the prophet (who was of the Levites who dwelt among the tribe of Benjamin) had some command to purchase land with records for evidence according to the law and custom:
Jer.32:9 "And I bought the field of Hanameel my uncle's son, that was in Anathoth, and weighed him the money, even seventeen shekels of silver."
Of course the eminent demise of Israel was at hand at that time, where the Holy Land would lie dormant for the next 70 years, as the LORD revealed by the Holy Ghost.
But putting law and custom of Christ aside, these bankers are experts of laying up treasure on earth.
Letting the blind lead the blind that both fall into the ditch, would have led to more brethren in the Lord being liberated and redeemed to the glory of God, and extending of grace and opportunities to the poor, rather than trusting in politics devised from within whited walls, which wind up turning many unlearned away from their part in Christ.
"Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Let your hands be strong, ye that hear in these days these words by the mouth of the prophets, which were in the day that the foundation of the house of the LORD of hosts was laid, that the temple might be built. (10) For before these days there was no hire for man, nor any hire for beast;"
(there was nothing to do the job for man and beast, as machines and computers: or hire sufficient for the Lord's liberty and rest for all)
"A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them...(7) They shall run like mighty men; they shall climb the wall like men of war; and they shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks: (8) Neither shall one thrust another; they shall walk every one in his path: and when they fall upon the sword, they shall not be wounded. (9) They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief. (10) The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:"
"Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. (38) But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things. (39) Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain."
"But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.(37) For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned."
"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; (2) Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;"
Ezekiel 16:49 "Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. (50) And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good."
If it were not by means of these men, we could move on to better conditions for the word of God to grow and prevail, as opposed to waiting around to see what thing the cat will drag in next.
Reminds me of the Roman soldier who told Apostle Paul that he bought his citizenship with a great sum, while Paul said he was free born: appealing to the desire one has for their own children to also be born free. The "anything but the Bible" mentality prevails with this generation, who stand to receive everything provided, while yet taking the name of the Lord in vain, who provided it, having some evil effect of turning people away from Christ.
To be certain, the greater denomination of all things have been hitting fever pitch of late. Perhaps not to the ongoing extent that the trumpet of the LORD hit, when he descended upon mount Sinai, but, one can hardly set one foot out of the door, without putting both feet into nothing so desirable. But God be praised and thanked for all things, especially that the battle is the LORD's, and it is his own namesake on the line (he is not mocked): if it will be possible, we will live peacefully with all men.
Hranek said "So I was just considering if that environment might have influenced or pressured the KJV translators to use the word Easter, to distance the translation they were preparing from the Jewish origins/foundation (Gen, Exodus, Lev, Num, Deut) of our faith."
Don't try to hand me that ham hock.
CV said "No, even our beloved KJV blew it with 'Easter'."
I understand that the usage of the word is accurate with what the gentiles were observing at the time, and was not used in Scripture as a term of endearment, nor was it apart of what the Translators found in the Sacred Scriptures: nor did its usage have any bearing on what personal comments they might have about the whole matter (as some suspect they had contrary to the doctrine of Christ). To transfer one in the same mind, while the gentiles once brought their observances into the Holy Land, and probably enjoyed to an extent to compete against Jewish observances, look at what their own descendants did in kind, sort of Christianizing their fertility holiday. But Jesus said "because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold." (Matt 24:12) - so we are permitted by the Lord to unhitch from man's pretenses either way.
Every fine line being for the Lord to judge, but it is certain that entire governments, businesses, and church organizations think to feed well off of the multitudes going on food and drink binges, undisciplined gambling, substance abuses, paying fines and filling courts and jails, lust for riches, etc. Therefore cruel and unfair hoaxes must needs abound.
Neil wrote: But you haven't defined "poor," either. If it's such child's play to answer my question, then find one & get back to me with his answer. Or better yet, find several. Then it'll be fun trying to reconcile their replies. rhymnrzn, I have to wonder if you actually understood my question. I wasn't asking for another sermon, I was asking for a specific answer. What is "rich?" What are "much goods"?
Mark 12:41 "And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much. (42) And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing. (43) And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury: (44) For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living."
Acts 5:4 "Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God."
Neil wrote: So how then does one define "rich": relative to then, or now? And either way, by which metric? Net worth, gross income, net income, or what? If you cannot arrive at a universally acceptable & precise definition of "rich," then we're wasting our time here, for none of us know what we're talking about, including myself.
It's a far cry from "But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things."(1Jn.2:20) and "but they that seek the LORD understand all things."(Pro.28:5) As a matter of where God justifies or condemns, it is written that we are expected according to what we have, to help along with them who keep covenant, and go into the world for teaching all men to keep the same commandments we are commanded with. The parable of the rich man, and when Daniel told Nebuchadnezzar to break off his sins by shewing mercy to the poor "if it may be a lengthening of thy tranquility" come instantly to mind for basic metrics.
Luke 12:19 "And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry."
jpw said "Someone out there knows, but what of everyone else? They can't know?"
I'm sure you're not inferior, how Apostle Paul said we may eat what is sold in the shambles, and not ask questions for conscience sake: it does not say everything should be considered fit for public use (that is in moderation).
Notlocked said "Evil wealthy merchants are obviously not going to be Christian are they? I'm sure there are plenty of wealthy men and women who think they are Chrisitan's."
People will boast membership, but not keep with the prophets and righteousness thereof. That most boast their Christianity, and for any others that do not, the word says that Jesus Christ is our Lord and their's (he is Lord of all): and, if not now at this time, they will bow and confess Jesus, as they are brought under the power being exercised over them. Remember the Psalms that said that the seas would drop down to the depths, and then rise to the heights, and men in their distress would call upon the Lord? he then brings them to their desired haven. Likewise, when Jonah took shipping, the merchants cornered him to ask what his matters and occupation were, and they immediately feared when they knew that it was for his cause that the tempest was upon them, because he had fled from the Lord.
How can I be in jeopardy with the Lord, seeing that I keep that which I received in the beginning of my faith in Jesus, and abide in my calling? The Bible itself says that this present world lieth in evil and unbelief, including those called by the name of the Lord, for their own hardness of heart and slowness to believe all that is written in Scripture.
Apostle Paul condemns unworthiness, and I will do the same.
2 Corinthians 8:12 "For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not. (13) For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye burdened: (14) But by an EQUALITY, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be EQUALITY: (15) As it is written, He that had gathered much had nothing over; and he that had gathered little had no lack."
Right, I asked you one question in the mind of what we are surely commanded of the Lord, and gave my voice in defense of myself as you persisted to blame me for what I do not agree. As I gave you some points which I think you contradict, you passed over them in favor of accusation and a foolish question (compelling me to give you names makes doubt as to what spirit and mind you are of). God does not want men to owe one another, to speak leasing, to take thought for the morrow, strike up massive loans, meddle with the balance, or to open businesses destined for bankruptcy. We cannot stand in their way to stop them, if they refuse to hear reproof. That does not mean for us to say in so many words that they are delivered to do evil, and give them no warning of God, that it is their lawful right, nor will God (forget men) hold it against them: that would not be consistent within the testimony.
Proverbs 20:23 "Divers weights are an abomination unto the LORD; and a false balance is not good."
Hosea 12:7 "He is a merchant, the balances of deceit are in his hand: he loveth to oppress. (8) And Ephraim said, Yet I am become rich, I have found me out substance: in all my labours they shall find none iniquity in me that were sin."
Neil wrote: It's sure easy to not answer my question. I want names, not soapbox speeches.
The Bible says to avoid foolish questions, but I still shewed the wisdom which you neglect to fellowship with. I asked you more than one question as it pertains to the Lord's precepts, and it was like speaking into thin air. And I will remember your word, that you count my conversation of subjection and godly fear for "soapbox speeches": but I have not defrauded the fellowship of the spirit.
Psalms 119:13 "With my lips have I declared all the judgments of thy mouth."
It bears to mention that God judges the poor too, as he looks upon the hearts:
Jeremiah 6:13 "For from the least of them even unto the greatest of them every one is given to covetousness; and from the prophet even unto the priest every one dealeth falsely."
But just as accumulation of wealth is not in and of itself evil, the word does instruct the man of God to be fully equipped that he may be blessed of God, that he may retain his wealth in the blessing. When busy about redeeming his poor brethren, and observing the release of debts upon the year of release, and likewise tithing of the increase, that the house of God (which we are ) may be sufficient for the service of the tabernacle which is pitched by the Lord, is all that the Lord command his blessing, as opposed to blowing upon his substance because his eye was not bountiful in the time of need. For all of this is to assure that the word of God's grace is taught, and received upon fertile grounds: for it is also written, and all men have heard that Christians are supposed to believe, that it is more blessed to give than to receive. They heard that Christians are supposed to believe that no man had ought of his own in the congregation of righteousness, but that all men had all things common.
Neil wrote: Hey rhymnrzn, put your cards on the table: can you supply any examples of evil wealthy merchants who are ostensible Christians? And I don't mean convicts like Abramoff or Martha the Inside Trader
It is so easy a question to answer, I am ashamed. Every one that perpetuates that gain is godliness, who are lined up in all manner of churches. Mind you, had they not found profit in it, and if they did not have their ranks lodged up in the lawfirms, courthouses, police precincts, military garrisons, share-holder investment firms, management and chiefs at company headquarters and storehouses, in the field, at the sea, in the air, then they would have left feigning words to make merchandise of all men, and gone straightway into slave driving and selling families openly. Since just about every book of the Holy Bible testifies against rigorous rulers of every type, and because Catholics and Protestants provide those types for our modern day, I am astonished that you act like everything is more excellent, as if it is not thinly veiled slavery seeing that if we do not participate in this economy, we are more or less cut off from rights to dwell in the cities of habitation.
It is true that judgement belongs to the Lord, and he alone is fit to do, as he knows the hearts. What you said is not true Neil, as we know many so called brethren are in danger of the judgement for their excesses. The majority of the participants in secular government boast membership to the body of Christ, as do the majority of wealthy merchants. Nor do the Scriptures you quoted negate other Scriptures, just like other Scriptures do not negate the ones you quote, as if I am seeking to bring upon any man other than what is written. for example:
James 2:6 "But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?"
1 Timothy 6:9 "But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition."
Luke 1:52 (Mary's reply) "He hath put down the mighty from their seats, and exalted them of low degree. (53) He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away.
Neil wrote: Maybe you just like condemning people you've never met. Both "liberals" & Fundies share that habit. I have enough trouble just making sense of the people I do know. Judge not, lest ye be judged.
As the Lord lives, I don't mind being outcast as a "liberal and a fundie" from some one that is not in one accord in the Gospel. Granted, I would seek to forewarn brothers against doing things that are bad for reputation, such as running a worldly racket, and then casting it off based on who rides or who wipes out on the surf of the multitudes.
There's plenty of cases going around where people are being threatened over sequestration, and this or that happens if so and so gets elected: but if we were righteous, God only would be our king, and we wouldn't need these hirelings to stand up and make our sons and daughters to be their bakers, servants, soldiers, and take the tenth of our harvests etc.
here's democracy for you
Proverbs 28:2 "For the transgression of a land many are the princes thereof: but by a man of understanding and knowledge the state thereof shall be prolonged."
Proverbs 29:2 "When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn."
Neil wrote: I am in no position to judge other people's hearts, so I cannot say whether anyone is as overly covetous as you think. If I dared to try it, I could be fairly blamed for the sin of divination! So stop fretting over the wealthy. They are not the proper concern of believers. BTW, contrary to the stereotype of the top hatter riding in a Pierce-Arrow down Park Avenue, many wealthy people actually live quite frugally. Even those who are ostentatious still provide work for the lowly, by purchasing goods made by them. God uses even the evil for his providential purposes.
By the sounds of it, it is as the days of heaven, and their be no treacherous dealing against the brethren in breaking the covenant of Christ either. Nor do you seem at all concerned with the coming dispensation that all Christians are soon to face, and all men small and great, where we shall not even have the right to buy and sell save he that receives the mark of the beast. That being at least a little ways off in the distance, tell me, is it God's will for men to ignore Christ, and strike up 10 and 20 year loans, and build lavish resorts and whatever, to depend on what they know not?