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Lurker wrote: 1) That said, we still come to the divide between two camps; those who profess faith is a gift and those who profess that all mankind has the ability to believe unto righteousness.
2) All mankind has convictions and the inate ability to trust (many trust in their own works to please God)
3) That conviction can only come by the word of God
Lurker 1) Ref Matt 7:21-23 The "Lord, Lord" verses; - Which type from your conclusion did these folks display? These verses suggest a "faith" which did not work - or it was NOT "faith."
2) But on this conclusion - Are we defining "Faith" as we know it to be the means of salvation. Viz... "1Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 9. Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls"
3) This also leads to the question, "WHO CAN "receive" the Word of God?" Is it a human ability or..... ______________
Mike wrote: But if you didn't say what you said, accept my apologies
Mike I said quote "That would be salvation by works. " You forgot to interpret the "smiley."
You must provide the theological attribute of the smiley in these complex discussions.
Mike wrote: a) Faith in His blood simply means faith in the proptiation provided by the shedding of His blood.
b) The blood was physical, not "a spiritual entity." Spiritual beings have no need of blood, their life is not in it. c) The just shall live by faith- Paul is talking to believers. The just are already saved. Living by faith is doing the works God has prepared believers to do, per Eph 2:10 and is not therefore salvation by works, nor can it be construed to be.
Mike I should have known you would jump in with the Arminian style solutions.
a) True. But the point of discussion was grammar, Noun - Verb, not theological definition.
b) "Spiritual" is the theme behind the statement, - NOT a physical faith covered in actual blood.
c) "The just...." - Again at this point it was the grammatical discussion I sought to address. So I am a little surprised you jumped into "salvation." The reason I brought it up was a play on the "verb" consruction. However your point, quote; "living by faith is DOING THE WORKS" - Is that ALL that faith is? - Just a human task within fallen human fallible ability?? (Arminian)??
Lurker wrote: Does "FAITH IN HIS BLOOD..." literally mean faith resident in His blood or, as most commonly interpreted, believer's confidence/trust placed in His blood which would make faith a verb?
Lurker Thats a good one you have found. How about these speculations on it?
The Greek at this point "pistis" or more specifically "pistews" is a Greek NOUN!
Therefore the statement is - "Faith(noun) in His blood" - Thus it is not - "faith(doing something) in His blood."
Faith being spiritual and the blood in this verse applied as a spiritual entity - there would be no conflict in defining them both as nouns. Our faith then is not a 'doing' - but a state of Christian being. As in Rom 1:17 "the just shall live by faith(pistis)[same word] - not - "the just shall live by "doing something"" = That would be salvation by works.
Lurker wrote: Now... a question for you (or anyone): Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is **justified by faith** without the deeds of the law. Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now **justified by his blood**, we shall be saved from wrath through him. If both be true, how do you reconcile these two verses?
On first read I couldn't see why you asked the question. However does the intro to chapter 5 provide you with an explanation? Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have ACCESS by faith INTO THIS GRACE wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only so..... 9 Much more then.... blood...
If we disconect the Crucified Christ (blood) from faith then we are left with an empty cross devoid of its power. (1Cor.1:18)
Faith then becomes questionable as to its relevance. We would have to do works/obedience/deeds of the law (Rom 3:28). Back to the OT? But no flesh is justified by the law, Rom 3:20.
Rom 5:10 (A) Reconciled by His "death" - (B) "Saved" by His life.
Rom 3:25 God set forth Christ to be a propitiation through FAITH IN HIS BLOOD... Thus faith - without deeds justifies.(28).