O'Connor wrote:
Protestant churches display statues

NO!!

"luring more young people to" - LIBERALISM.

This musical trash is not accepted in real worship or real churches. Satan's chaos and confusion which is Liberalism appeals to the flesh and sin of the reprobate in his natural estate. Another source of satanic anarchy from the authority of God.

God's elect do not go there.

June wrote:
you are intending to resist the implementation of any of the laws supporting homosexual behaviour.
Your primary obligation is to uphold the Law of God"

Therefore your allegation puts you in the same position. Voting in the government assembly of your country means, some say yes - some no. Being a citizen of your country YOUR representatives will have come to the same legislation decision, ergo the decision is MADE FOR YOU TOO! By the same token of majority vote win. YOUR participation in the democratic process of your country puts you in the same agreement as your politicians that of majority rules.
By your citizenship you accept the legislation of your nation and political representation method.

NB Daniel in his prayers uses "WE" of Israel. Dan 9:5 "We have sinned"

Paul Forrest wrote:
We know very well that our brother Ian has prayed and preached in addition to his political duties. That's all very well, but his gospel ministry has to suffer. Consider that he was a member of parliament, a member of the European 'Parliament', the leader of a political party, the moderator of his denomination, involved in various organisations (at one time, the leader in a semi-paramilitary group), the editor of a magazine, and contributor to other magazines. Did I mention that he was also the pastor of a large congregation?
His level of activity can hardly be matched. But, paradoxically, therein lies the problem. There are only so many hours in the day. The vast amount of time he spent carrying out political duties meant that there was little time left for what was supposed to be his chief role--that of pastor.

Was God's providence NOT in evidence, in the parts of Paisley's life which were not specifically within church walls?

June wrote:
A) I repeat, PLAINLY SPEAKING . . God's Word prohibits GOSPEL MINISTERS from holding public office.

B) I meant II Tim. 2:4

B) First the battle for the soldier is spiritual. Thus everywhere!
Second this battle is not against flesh and blood but spiritual forces of darkness.

Again this does not preclude the witness whether in - a factory - an office - a field - a garage - a house - a barn - OR ANY CIVIL COMMUNITY WORK!!!

The job of a politician is just a job, like plumber, electrician, accountant and candle stick maker. BUT there is nothing in Scripture that prevents the Christian from being involved in community work of any kind.

Lets trust in Jesus who declared .....
"I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil"

If GOD protects you then why fear a few politicians???

June, your arguement here appears to be trying to establish that there are certain areas of community into which the Christian cannot go???
By this means you are barring God from these areas.

June wrote:
1) God has plainly set forth his requirements for Gospel Ministers in His Word.

2) In Acts 6:4 and II Tim. 6:4 , He relegates their peculiar work to that which ministers to the souls of men. They are to be “separated unto the Gospel”

3) (Rom. 1:1)

4) Christ, the exemplar preacher, went about “teaching and preaching” (Matt. 4:23; Matt. 9:35); “He taught daily in the temple” (Luke 19:47) and the doctrine.......... did not meddle in politics

2) = Acts 6:4 merely says that the preacher should keep up a life of prayer and preaching. Paisley did that.

= II Tim 6:4 - There is no sixth chapter in 2Tim.?

3) Rom 1:1 - Paul again merely states that he is separated unto the Gospel. This statement does not preclude him or anyone else from other tasks in the community.

4) As for comparing Christ and His short period in the Jewish community with a modern preacher living his whole life in a democracy; - NOT relevant! Since Christ lived under Roman military rule. And was an ITINERANT preacher.

YOU said.
"PLAINLY SPEAKING . . God's Word prohibits GOSPEL MINISTERS from holding public office."

= Not True!!!

June wrote:
Preacher . . Politician . . a Conflict of Interest:

As has been stated before the Westminster Government initiated and ordered the funding of homosexual interests; - and this is not the fault of Paisley nor any other one person.

We all know that politics in ALL western nations is anti-Biblical and anti-Christian, so is 96 per cent of the population of these nations. So common sense tells you that the legislation brought about by anti-Christian reprobates, who are in the majority in ALL western nations, is going to be - (Yes you've got it) - anti-Christian.

Prov 29:2 When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn.

June wrote:
God's sovereignty (Rom. 13) does not absolve a man of his individual responsibility to keep the commandments of God or to act in accordance with His will as revealed in His Word.

Western governments impugn and contravene Holy Scripture all the time! And have for centuries. After all they are only human and invariably reprobate unbelievers.

But This is also the case in all society.

Therefore are you suggesting Christians should remove themselves from nations/societies which transgress Holy Law?

Jesus prayed
"I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil."

Now thats practical sovereignty.

WCF 23.2 "It is lawful for Christians to accept and execute the office of a magistrate when called thereunto; in the managing whereof, as they ought especially to maintain piety, justice, and peace, according to the wholesome laws of each commonwealth, so, for that end, they may lawfully, now under the New Testament, wage war upon just and necessary occasion."

June wrote:
1. Let's be clear . .
These are not my words, but the words of

2. Therein lies the problem friend.
In the words of Pastor Ralph Ovadal,
"But ministers of the gospel should never simultaneously be ministers of the civil state.

2. You (and the Pastor) are still NOT dealing with nor receiving Romans Ch. 13.

Either God is in sovereign charge - or there are bits of quote "authority" unquote, which are independant of God. Which is it to be?

June wrote:
For years, the Rev Ian Paisley's voice spoke up for Biblical Protestantism, at home and abroad.
He claimed to be the voice of evangelical Protestantism as he thundered against apostasy, ecumenism, republicanism and Romanism.

Democracy is the method of government in Ulster whether you like it or not. This means all people are elligible to stand for office in parliament regardless of the religious preferences of some.

Now if the church in Ulster could come together in support of the same views, then we could attack the politicians. But of course they do not.

We can see this exemplified by the "perfect" Christians who keep attacking Ian Paisley since he left office. Hypocrites!!!

Paisley, like all the politicians in office at Stormont did what their master in Westminster dictated, as they were obliged to do.

Thats democracy for you.
If you had any other form of government - then you would still find something to complain about!!!

Ah so it is the formula your after!
And of course if it does not equate to your own then mine will be wrong.

You quoted 1Peter 3:15
Then tellingly added "Have you been born again?" - Already you are my judge and jury.

The next verse states
16 "Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ."

You speak evil of me Discerning, and falsely accuse me.

Read 2Cor 5:1-8 on assurance.

For we walk by faith not by sight.

It was the Puritan Thomas Brooks in his book "Heaven on Earth" who said
"The sixth proposition is this, That the certainty and infallibility of a Christians assurance cannot be made know to any but his own heart."

Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised)
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

May the Word of God be in you!

Your response was defensive?

What is it you seek? A Formula?

You asked "How sure are you that you are one of the elect?"

If I was to share that certainty and its proof with you, and you were not of the Elect, - would you comprehend or argue with me?

How "sure" were the church people addressed in Matt 7:21-23? and in Rev 2 and 3?

See 1 Cor 9:24 to 27.

No one can "limit" God in any of His attributes. (Because of His Sovereignty)

As to your "trusting" dichotomy!
You have gone on to introduce a human ability both in your assumption and your reasoned conclusion.

Remember our "Perseverance" (P of TULIP) also comes from divine hands.

Our "UNConditional Election" implies no human input, - including doubt!!!

The "Calvinist"
That is the True Christian Believer.
Has
Believed the same Biblical Truth for the last two Millennia.