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SteveR wrote: What you call 'constant false representation' is an essential part of Christian fellowship by those you desire prayers from
I desire Christ's intercession, I desire the prayers of the elect. I know the election of no man, I believe even the elect are sinners. I believe there is error in the best of saints. I know how ignorant I have been for many years and I know not the ignorance that I still embrace.
I do not believe in familiar fellowship and this is a great temptation at this time for me. I have tried to maintain occasional fellowship, maybe with too much frequency. I know they hold me as separate from them in doctrine, worship and discipline. I have not been unclear as to what I believe. You and I on the other hand claim to believe the same doctrine, but have differences in worship, and discipline. I grant I may not understand what you are saying, but it is more then a little evident that my stands against the papacy and those who remain in the Church of Rome have been very different then yours. If I have stumbled you in this matter forgive me; if I have stumbled others, I ask their forgiveness.
May the Lord of mercy & grace decide the matter as He sees it. Lord have mercy on me a sinner.
Rev. 13:13 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
I find it curious that there is a constant false representation of 'Presby' (which is derogatory) upon all who believe there has only, ever been one Covenant of Grace. For the truth of the matter is that all Reformed Christians believe that. Presbyterian, the Scriptural form of Church Gov't. is a form of Government over the Church as One in doctrine, worship and discipline. At this time in history, it exists conceptually only. Mr. James Renwick's Informatory Vindication explains the Scriptural reasons for separation, but Paul states this is related to sin in 1 Cor.
As the Lord has graciously taught me, He has mercy on whom he will. Mercy is what caused God to look on poor pathetic sinners and condescend to love and provide for them what they could not do for themselves. There is no greater poverty then a fallen sinner before a Thrice Holy God, nor greater riches then the love of God in Christ.
God in Christ offers himself to poor needy ones and as the Captain of our Salvation, our Jehoshua says: As for me and my house we will serve the Lord. Read Joshua 24 in the NT light you all have. We cannot obey God, only Christ can. We are accepted in the Beloved, he offers Himself in a marriage Covenant as Head and Husband of His Bride the Church. He initiates and enables.
Dorcas wrote: Mourner.....as you stated you may be leaving the forum....will continue to remember you in prayer for your situation. All of Gods best to you.
I didn't mean to pass by your comment unnoticed Dorcas, It was both noted and appreciated. To leave this forum gives me little to no opportunity for spiritual conversation. Not for want of trying. Please pray the Lord grant me His fellowship in greater measure until he finds me my people. I am taunted daily with the words "Find your people" God knows that is my great desire. Psalm 74:19 O deliver not the soul of thy turtledove unto the multitude of the wicked: forget not the congregation of thy poor for ever.
20 Have respect unto the covenant: for the dark places of the earth are full of the habitations of cruelty.
21 O let not the oppressed return ashamed: let the poor and needy praise thy name.
22 Arise, O God, plead thine own cause: remember how the foolish man reproacheth thee daily.
23 Forget not the voice of thine enemies: the tumult of those that rise up against thee increaseth continually. The dark places of the earth are those without the true gospel and I know of no potential place closer than 200 miles.
JSC wrote: I want to make it clear I cannot vote for anyone lest I violate my conscience. I do not see the lesser of two evils argument as viable either. Lest one were to prove himself tested by the word I will not cast my acceptance of him nor desire for his leadership. Find me one that does not covet his fame nor glory and his heart is pure before the Lord
Shorter Catechism WCF Q.30 How doth the Spirit apply to us the redemption purchased by Christ?
A. The Spirit applieth to us the redemption purchased by Christ, by working faith in us and thereby uniting us to Christ in our effectual calling.
Q.31 What is effectual calling?
A. Effectual calling is the work of God's Spirit, whereby, convincing us of our sin and misery, enlightening our minds in the knowledge of Christ and renewing our wills, he doth persuade and enable us to embrace Jesus Christ, freely offered to us in the gospel.
That's how it works practically, that was my 'experience'.
I deleted what I didn't have room to write coherently in answers to the questions, I didn't answer. Lurker can fill you in on sitting ducks. I told him I'm a flying duck.
I've heard of crony capitalism, but crony denominational ism? I thought the Scripture teaches that division and schism is sin. Crony sinners?
I have been taught that the heart is the intellect, will and affections. I'm neither a Hebrew, nor Greek scholar. But when I'd read Deut.6:4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:
5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
That definition seemed to fit in that context. Might would seem like physical strength, soul seems like the life of God breathed into man at creation/procreation. We all become living souls, but we are all different. A body without a soul is dead. A body and soul, without the spirit of God is dead in trespasses and sins a child of disobedience walking after the prince of the power of the air.
People who come to Christ out of unchurched backgrounds, who have been openly lawless are more likely to have dramatic experiences. But what of those who have been nurtured all their lives in the truth. God's dealings with them are no less effectual, just less dramatic?
3 Certain signs wrote: Mourner In the context of: Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? How do you know that you have saving faith? Can you know for sure? Or do you live in hope?
I think I understand why you quoted Jer.17:9 I misspoke. When I said I do not believe men can know infallibly another man's heart, only God can.
That wasn't what I meant. It seems to me there are a number of persons that think themselves able to know infallibly if another post it note is saved. I find that very concerning. I know GOD ALONE knows the heart, men judge externals, in the right context they should be able to observe the fruits in a fellow believer's life. True fellowship is related to a common Savior and belief in the truth.
I just got a phone call where I was barraged with questions. I didn't know this person, I'd answered the first question, then as the next came I asked who is this? She gave the name of a company, I presume. I questioned what the name meant and she repeated her second question. I stated I don't know who you are? Then she said if I wouldn't verify her question she could go no further and hung up.
Your successive questions remind me of that woman. I don't know you
Doing more reading and thinking then writing but decided to stop by quickly because my son has just come to retrieve their computer that was visiting with them for sometime now. They left last weekend and they'll have intranet tomorrow. Computer's leaving now, well maybe not, he just went out the door saying, see you tomorrow. He may have thought it left with his brother. It wan't in his office, it was in my room.
The long and short of it is my time on SA is wrapping up. Bitter-sweet climbs on the vine outside my window and it reminds me of my time here.
RK Borrill I was going to reply with a question to some of what you've said and if able later, I will. For the record I don't know you, or exactly what you believe; but from what I've read of your posts your opposers are presuming they do. So much so that they can judge your fruits, which I believe cannot be done from a post it note. I also believe 1 Sam 16:7b for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.
Micheal, I had a close friend with a great testimony and experiences that seemed agreeable to it. However last I knew she was denying the authority of Scripture. I do not believe men can know infallibly another man's heart, only God can.
You came to mind in my private worship this morning, I will share what I hope will be helpful to you, it was to me.
I found written on a 3x5 card; "Good men are more solicitous and desirous to know the duty that is to be done by them, then to know the events that shall occur concerning them; for duty is ours, events are God's" (unknown) Jer.10:23-25 was quoted next to it.
Proverbs tells us the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, but the fear of man is a snare.
I was struck reading Exodus 20:20 this morning. I was brought to Christ trembling, 34 years ago, after reading this chapter. I feared God because of sin and fled to Christ for my refuge as I pleaded with him from the NT. Since He was no respecter of persons, I thought surely He would do for me what He did for others. Prayer was born out of conviction for sin and great need.
Gal. 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
2 Tim. 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Psalm 74 was the historic testimony of the Church, when the Babylonian Monarch destroyed the first temple and took the people captive for the second time. Some think it speaks prophetically of Antiochus, who was a type of antichrist.
I appreciate the encouragement penned and SF from Job 36:15 He delivereth the poor in his affliction, and openeth their ears in oppression.
see Romans 15:4; Romans 8:24,25
Thank you Chris, add Ephes 6:10-18 to the above. It is Christ who is all in all to us when we are weak He is strong.
Duh wrote: I don't know what to pray for. What is your most urgent and pressing need? Who are these questioners that are making your life difficult and who you fear?
Since I'm usually more cryptic then clear, it is easy for me; however to be clear and not to sin isn't so easy.
I need to hold fast to the word of God and not waiver trusting he will do as he promises giving me the grace to endure, which to date he has done. Sadly the whole situation (division) was stirred up a year or two ago related to food stamps. I am not free to take them related to my convictions and for that reason there was much manipulation to press me to do so. I have held out this long. The last few years have been most interesting to see the many ways the Lord provides daily bread and or heat. He has straightened me, but has never left me without my needs, He is very creative. It was told to those who disagree with me (division) by those who were dispensing them (food stamps)that I could not be forced to take them, and they would step in only if necessary. What does that when necessary look like? ergo questioners.
I am in the refiners fire and holding to convictions that others don't share. The others are in the vast majority. That is refining. I barter.
Dorcas wrote: mourner..I know your pain concerning your grandchild.I have two grandchildren that I have not seen in 7 years...i will remember you in prayer.
Thank you Dorcus, I have much need of prayer at this time. My stands for the truth, for I fear offending God, have been costly in that they have stirred much ire and retaliation has moved to persecution since last winter. I am being hard pressed on every side. My greatest grief is my sin and that I am so easily given to fear, instead of trust, words instead of silence. 1 Peter 2:19-25 O that the Lord would cause me to rejoice and be exceeding glad, knowing that great is my reward in heaven. The Lord did deliver me even this day from one of the questioners and round two is Tuesday.
Lurker wrote: "... or any likeness of any thing [...] that is in the earth beneath..." Respectfully, sister, do you have a wedding picture or pictures of your loved ones?
Honestly, I have not taken a picture of myself or any family member in a long time. I would rather see my new grand baby then a picture of him. I was given a picture but it grieves me, because it is not enough for me, I want to hold him and sing to him and teach him about our Creator/Redeemer. That's what his mother is afraid of, so I have a picture.
But isn't the real issue John 7:16-18 You said you don't have pictures of Jesus because we don't know what he looked like. If you did then it would be okay? Of The Apostle it is said: 1 John:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life,which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
We have his Word to verify his humanity and as he appeared to John on Patmos would be hard to picture. I recently thought of Moses request to see Christ's glory (no man has seen God at any time) Words
Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
When this commandment was given to Moses men did make them, bow down to them and worship them. The majority of men did. Abraham was called out from among them to be separate and do differently. Their neighbors did make, bow down to and worship various created things. Romans 1 makes it clear that this is a rejection of general revelation and brings God's just displeasure on men. It spirals down from not worshiping and serving the Creator, to worshiping the creature and finally to reprobation.
Historically the Church has addressed this important issue. Those who violate this commandment are said to hate God and reap generational curses for 3-4 generations. If it is so important an issue, then it has been made clear. Back sliding from what has already been attained leads to apostasy.
T2W wrote: A Puritan non conformist ..lived in the 17th century.
Couldn't follow myself last evening and that is why I didn't respond T2W and Ladybug. Appreciated the link and info. I ended my night reading: Job 35:5 Look unto the heavens, and see; and behold the clouds which are higher than thou.
6 If thou sinnest, what doest thou against him? or if thy transgressions be multiplied, what doest thou unto him?
7 If thou be righteous, what givest thou him? or what receiveth he of thine hand?
8 Thy wickedness may hurt a man as thou art; and thy righteousness may profit the son of man.
9 By reason of the multitude of oppressions they make the oppressed to cry: they cry out by reason of the arm of the mighty.
10 But none saith, Where is God my maker, who giveth songs in the night;
11 Who teacheth us more than the beasts of the earth, and maketh us wiser than the fowls of heaven?
12 There they cry, but none giveth answer, because of the pride of evil men.
13 Surely God will not hear vanity, neither will the Almighty regard it.
14 Although thou sayest thou shalt not see him, yet judgment is before him; therefore trust thou in him.
I've gotten good counsel from Elihu to Job over the years.
Strat wrote: Has anyone read the Bible where it calls both men and women equally to holiness,rightousness and mutual submission within their God given roles without excuses and worldly influence.
Yes, but the Lord has provided teachers and pastors and since I've been without one of my own since 2002 outside of a book the Lord has kindly directed me in the old paths. Strat, God is teaching patience to his people and that never comes easy. Since you spoke first I thought I'd risk it. You'd like Gouge I think. It really troubled me because of my past (and present) ignorance but it also encouraged me to press on (agonize) toward the mark.
R. K. Borill wrote: R. K. responds: Can't argue about that Lurker, but the problem with the church is not going to be solved with a movie. The problem is idolatry, i.e. Thinking that God's word is insufficient, and that it must be supplemented with that which satisfies the senses. Any deviation from the regulative principle implies insufficiency. Jude 1:19 KJV  These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
I agree and would add ignorance,to idolatry, atheism and profanity. In recent days sorrowing for sin in general and my own in particular I realized how great a part ignorance played. Truth indeed must be mined for and we are busy and easily distracted unless God shelves us.
Lurker the best part of my day was studying Zech. 11:4,7 praise God for his using you to direct me there, who'd figure (I don't like smiley faces or I'd use one- but its out of character, maybe a flying duck)