Pennned... I was thinking about the city of Jerusalem, the land, and most of all the people of Israel, descendents of Abraham. The people have been preserved even when the land God granted to them has been taken away, but I think of Israel as those three things.
Pennned... I was talking about the actual, physical nation of Israel and the descendents of promise. It seems to me God would not forsake the people of Israel any more than He would forsake believers. He still made separate promises to her that will be realized when all Israel is saved.
Dopey... You do realize they were still on this earth? It just shows that God protected His chosen people, all of which may not have been believers, just like He made promises to Israel, all of whom are not believers.
Lurker wrote: Looking for the relevance of Hosea to the discussion? Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, **Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?** As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. 1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light. **Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.** (Quoted from Hosea) But it doesn't matter. If you want to ignore God's word and continue passing judgment on those who remarry after a biblically lawful divorce, by all means do so. But I doubt you'll find an audience here. You're steadfast rejection of scripture which doesn't fit your presuppositions has been perfectly demonstrated.
The relevance is that God doesn't give up on Israel, just like Hosea didn't give up on his wife. The promises are to Israel and you were just grafted in, God has not forsaken her!
Lurker wrote: Changing the subject? You dogmatically maintain it is a sin for one who has divorced to remarry under any circumstances. I said God did exactly that in that He put away both houses of Israel that He may take another wife from among the Gentiles. You see, J4J, both houses of Israel became Gentiles when God put them away (House of Israel Jer 3:8, House of Judah Is 50:1) and their circumcisions became uncircumcision (Rom 2:25) which is the definition of a Gentile (Eph 2:11). Jacob's seed was not God's wife until called in mercy, by the gospel, in the new and better covenant along with Gentiles who were/are not of Jacob's seed (Rev 7:9). Hos 1:9 Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God. Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them,
Hosea? Isn't he the guy that was married to a whore, but was not allowed to leave her? Picture of God with Israel? Hmm. The only reason replacement theology came about is people got confused when there wasn't a nation of Israel, but they were given promises. "I know, it must be metaphorical for Christians!"
Michael Hranek... As I suspected, there are no verses which talk about a rapture of the church. Thanks for helping me demonstrate that fact. I could under your concern about me soul winning if this forum was about that, but it's not and others are debating also. The Resurrection isn't a matter of interpretation, it's in the scripture. The Rapture isn't.
Michael Hranek... You do realize this is the Second Coming? It says the dead in Christ will rise first. What type of body do you suppose they rise with if not a resurrected one? If it is a resurrected one, then those who remain will be changed in the same manner and we know when the first resurrection is!
Revelation 20:4-6 NKJV
And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
If everyone is going to be resurrected at a supposed rapture, then what is the point of the Resurrection? When people quote verses that speak of the Resurrection, why do they think it is talking about a rapture instead? The Resurrection is spoken of in scripture, a rapture is not.
I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness! For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? ------------------- So Israel's rejection of her Messiah resulted in salvation coming to the Gentile world and Israel's acceptance of Him will result in the Resurrection. This happens at the end of the Tribulation when all of the armies of the world come to destroy Jerusalem and the Israelites who are still remaining will cry out to whom they have pierced and Christ returns.
‚ÄúFor behold, in those days and at that time, When I bring back the captives of Judah and Jerusalem, I will also gather all nations, And bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat; And I will enter into judgment with them there On account of My people, My heritage Israel, Whom they have scattered among the nations; They have also divided up My land. But Judah shall abide forever, And Jerusalem from generation to generation. For I will acquit them of the guilt of bloodshed, whom I had not acquitted; For the Lord dwells in Zion.‚ÄĚ
Also, I've read Romans and it st I'll says God has not replaced Israel.
But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. ---------------------- The first resurrection takes place after the Tribulation.
Yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, nor shall I abhor them, to utterly destroy them and break My covenant with them; for I am the Lord their God. But for their sake I will remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God: I am the Lord .‚Äô ‚ÄĚ These are the statutes and judgments and laws which the Lord made between Himself and the children of Israel on Mount Sinai by the hand of Moses. Romans 11:1-2 NKJV
I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew.