John UK wrote: 1) Everyone has 5 points on: 2) I reckon the arminist would secretly like to have a tulip, because tulips are quite beautiful
1) Including JW's, Roman Catholics and all the cults that are out there. Many of course follow the heretical Arminians who wouldn't know the Bible from the bus timetable. For example the hyper Wesleyans. 2) You still having trouble spelling Arminian??
btw. Just to inform you of the Biblical and truthful character of the Canons of Dordt here is an article from them::- Art 17 "Since we are to judge of the will of God from his Word, which testifies that the children of believers are holy, not by nature, but in virtue of the covenant of grace, in which they, together with the parents, are comprehended, godly parents have no reason to doubt of the election and salvation of their children, whom it pleaseth God to call out of this life in their infancy" (Canons of Dordt)
Michael Hranek wrote: I hate an UNBiblcial Partially Biblical Calvinism
But Michael you don't follow the Biblical Doctrines of Grace TULIP, the Bible teaching of the Westminster Confession of Faith, The Scripture defending Canons of Dordt and the Reformed Standards. Therefore it is your perception of Biblical Calvinism which is tainted by Unbiblical ideologies.
"That some receive the gift of faith from God, and others do not receive it proceeds from God's eternal decree, "For known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world," Acts 15:18."Who worketh all things after the counsel of his will," Ephesians 1:11.According to which decree, he graciously softens the hearts of the elect, however obstinate, and inclines them to believe, while he leaves the non-elect in his just judgment to their own wickedness and obduracy. And herein is especially displayed the profound, and merciful, and at the same time the righteous discrimination between men, equally involved in ruin; or that decree of election and reprobation, revealed in the Word of God, which though men of perverse, impure and unstable minds wrest to their own destruction, yet to holy and pious souls affords unspeakable consolation." (Canons of Dordt)
Michael Hranek wrote: I tend to disagree with your premise. If anything the party of Dhort fears people reading/studying and living by and out what God Himself in the WHOLE BIBLE reveals and teaches
Michael "Dordt" "Dordt" Short for Dordrecht.
The Canons of Dordt which record the conflict between the real Christians - the Calvinists - and the Arminian (RCC style) heretics - Were written to teach the Biblical way of God's sovereignty and rejection of salvation by works - The popish doctrine which the Arminians adopted in their ignorance.
Now Michael I know you hate the Biblical Calvinist and Love the Arminian and his RCC theology - But do try to spell the terms correctly.
For your edification:- SA Sermon The Synod of Dordt (1618-19) http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=328121421586
Michael Hranek wrote: I am amazed how badly and utterly wrong you've intrepreted Scripture to fit your system of theology
MH. I am amazed how badly and utterly wrong you've intrepreted Scripture to fit your system of theology.
"The Sum of Saving Knowledge (1647). 3b) The covenant of grace, set down in the Old Testament before Christ came, and in the New since he came, is one and the same in substance, albeit different in outward administration: For the covenant in the Old Testament, being sealed with the ordinances of circumcision and the paschal lamb, did set forth Christ's death to come, and the benefits purchased by it, under the shadow of bloody sacrifices, and various ceremonies: but since Christ came, the covenant being sealed by the ordinances of baptism and the Lord's supper, does clearly hold forth Christ already crucified before our eyes, victorious over death and the grave, and gloriously ruling heaven and earth, for the good of his own people."
Read the questions properly John. They are about the all to human faculty of "doubt"
C.H.Spurgeon said "Others, who have attained to great strength and stability of faith, are nevertheless, at times, subjects of doubt. He who has a colossal faith will sometimes find that the clouds of fear float over the brow of his confidence. It is not possible, I suppose, so long as man is in this world, that he should be perfect in anything; and surely it seems to be quite impossible that he should be perfect in faith. Sometimes, indeed, the Lord purposely leaves his children, withdraws the divine inflowings of his grace, and permits them to begin to sink, in order that they may understand that faith is not their own work, but is at first the gift of God, and must always be maintained and kept alive in the heart by the fresh influence of the Holy Spirit."
CAB wrote: TULIP is 5 letters that stand for 5 heresies that just believing them, teaching them, means Hell
Don't worry CAB the Elect know the truth about TULIP and where it is found and authenticated in Scripture.
Now as far as your Arminian problem is concerned - Faith is the gift of God and if you didn't get faith by grace then your human faculties will only take you down the road to hell.
God doesn't pick a sinner just because he decides to go to church and follow Jesus, Matthew 7:21-23, demonstrates that.
God elected His followers before the foundation of the world. Eph 1:4,5 refers.
Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: = The Elect were predestinated. = According to the purpose of God - Note NO human input. = The counsel of His own will - That means God's will - NOT human will.
And don't forget that natural man pre saved is blind ignorant and alienated from God so he couldn't discern the way anyway. 1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Jim Lincoln wrote: Look up Amyraldism on Wikipedia 4 point Calvinism.
Jim. Your being only 4/5ths of the complete truth does that make you a full heretic anyway?
"So-called four-point Calvinism fails the test of biblical Calvinism because this view tends to see the TULIP as an abstraction rather than seeing it Christocentrically. The TULIP only works when we see Christ at its center. Consider the TULIP as a chiasm with the "L" at the top of the pyramid. It is Jesus Christ which makes sense of all the doctrines of grace. Four-point Calvinists who reject Limited Atonement but embrace irresistible grace must consider this: Irresistible grace is not some abstract doctrine but must be seen in relation to Jesus Christ, specially in relation to the grace purchased by Christ upon the cross. The Spirit of Christ illuminates, regenerates and effectually brings to faith his elect" (John Hendryx) http://www.monergism.com/topics/bad-theology/four-point-calvinism
Mike wrote: Now did you say that out of your free will, or did God sovereignly decree it?
God's sovereignty doesn't begin at man's decisions and choices.
God's sovereignty began at the foundation of the world. Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will"
God doesn't change His perfect mind just because sinners cannot agree with Him.
"WCF/3/1. God from all eternity did, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass;a yet so as thereby neither is God the author of sin,b nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures, nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.c
a. Rom 9:15, 18; 11:33; Eph 1:11; Heb 6:17. â€˘ b. James 1:13, 17; 1 John 1:5. â€˘ c. Prov 16:33; Mat 17:12; John 19:11; Acts 2:23; 4:27-28."
Lurker wrote: a. why do you suppose Kastens just didn't say that? b. infant baptism assures absolutely nothing? c. Not sure what the Jews who were broken off the olive tree ... have to do with Gentile election
Freddie; a. He did! This conversation is about your lack of english grammar comprehension, which apparently runs through the Baptist denomination. b. Considering all the unsaved reprobates which the Baptist church dunks, thats a pretty strange question coming from you. As I have pointed out you Baptists really need to study election and Covenant. c. Election is about those who were quote; Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will" Now try and grasp this Freddie, election relates to a time "foundation of the world" BEFORE The Israel nation existed. And as Paul teaches election includes the Jews too in fact geography plays no part in election; - "that the purpose of God according to election might stand" Read Rom 9. PS; God is in charge and always has been sovereign - NOT baptism.