DJC49 wrote: even before TIME existed, made degrees within the constraints of TIME ... TIME which did NOT exist for the eternal
"Time does not exist in eternity/heaven"??? If "No Time" IE The distance between point A and point B is non existent. Then conversation could not exist since that implies (to us) the use of thoughts, words and ideas. Thoughts would then become instantaneous. - Communicated by ESP??
And time/life itself, if non-existent because instantaneous, since it happens between point A and B would become a nonentity. Thus a fiction? Life after death is instantaneous - woosh and its gone. Where? John 11:25 I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" What does Jesus mean by this description of 'life' - An instantaneous woosh??
Jesus said to the thief "Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise." Luke 23. If so what happened in paradise did it all happen instantaneously?? A blink and its gone? Where IF Eternal?
Knowledge and understanding becomes a flash whilst life zooms past in an instant. And how long does the 'zoom' last? Instantly???
The terms‚Äúsupralapsarianism,‚ÄĚ and ‚Äúinfralapsarianism‚ÄĚ have to do with the logical order of God's eternal decrees of salvation. The question, basically, is this: did God's decree to save a certain people come before (supra) or after (infra) his decree to permit the fall (laps).
Infralapsarianism 1. the decree to create the world and (all) men 2. the decree that (all) men would fall 3. the election of some fallen men to salvation in Christ (and the reprobation of the others) 4. the decree to redeem the elect by the cross work of Christ 5. the decree to apply Christ's redemptive benefits to the elect
Supralapsarianism (historical) 1. the election of some men to salvation in Christ (and the reprobation of the others) 2. the decree to create the world and both kinds of men 3. the decree that all men would fall 4. the decree to redeem the elect, who are now sinners, by the cross work of Christ 5. the decree to apply Christ's redemptive benefits to these elect sinners
Observer wrote: I think we know which beginning this is referring to. Can you think of a beginning before this beginning?
The God which I worship who wrote the Scriptures lived in eternity BEFORE He created creation. God in eternity knew of His creation before He brought it into being. That is where election and incidentally the Covenant had their beginnings. In the mind of God. My God thinks before He acts. Good advice for some posters.
"God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:" 2Thes2
"We may go back, if we might use such strange words, whole eternities, and yet never arrive at the beginning. Our wing might be tired, our imagination would die away; could it outstrip the lightnings flashing in majesty, power, and rapidity, it would soon weary itself ere it could get to the beginning. But God from the beginning chose his people; when the unnavigated ether was yet unfanned by the wing of a single angel, when space was shoreless, or else unborn when universal silence reigned, and not a voice or whisper shocked the solemnity of silence when there was no being and no motion, no time, and nought but God himself" CHS (sermon on Election)
What Spurgeon is doing here is rejecting evolutionary theory as pure human speculation from ignorance.
The sermon at that point begins quote; "III Then thirdly This Election is ETERNAL. "God hath from the beginning chosen us to eternal life." Can any man tell me when the beginning was? Years ago we thought the beginning of this world was when Adam came upon it ......"
Spurgeon is talking about election from eternity and eternity is something the human mind cannot perceive of. "Beginning" therefore is something we cannot comprehend. But this is where election starts.
Any "speculation" Spurgeon might use is the same as evolutionary speculation - NOT science and NOT truth. Spurgeon would not use the speculations of ignorant blind reprobates to validate eternity or creation, Eph 4:18 refers.
Jim Lincoln wrote: Scofield 1917 Notes wrote: sabbath (1) The sabbath ("cessation") appears in Scripture as the day of God's rest in the finished work of creation. ge 2:2,3. For 2500 years of human life absolutely no mention....
Jim I'm very worried about your religious affiliations. First you quote from this NASB which includes the work of the Anglican heretics Westcott and Hort.
NOW you quote from the criminal forger Scofield, who did not support his first (catholic) wife and family, leaving them to fend for themselves, and even stole money from his mother in law.