Lurker wrote: Nothing would make me happier than if you two would ask questions,
Why did God plant the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?
And make it "tempting" to the eyes of man:- Genesis 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
Genesis 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Mike wrote: What would you say is the problem for which this punishment is the solution?
Its more about the punishment itself that I'm looking at. God imputed the guilt of Adam into his posterity, but that's not all. God also took away the righteousness Adam had prior to his sin. Thus posterity has all the sin but none of the gifts God originally bestowed on Adam.
Quenstedt (â€ 1688), "Ques. Theo. Did.," Pol 1., 994.â€”"It was not simply of the good pleasure or the absolute sovereignty of God, but of the highest justice and equity, that the sin, which Adam as the root and origin of the whole human race committed, should be imputed to us, and propagated in us so as to constitute us guilty."
Calvin.â€”"God by a just judgment condemned us to wrath in Adam, and willed us to be born corrupt on account of his sin."
H. Witsius (1636â€“1708), "Economy," Bk. 1., ch. 8, Â§5 33 and 34.â€”"It is therefore necessary that the sin of Adam in virtue of the covenant of works, be so laid to the charge of his posterity, who were comprised with him in the same covenant, that, on account of the demerit of his sin, they are born destitute of original righteousness,"
Thus our righteousness is a filthy rag. And we need the imputed righteousness of Christ.
Mike wrote: 1) Not so. The cause of sin in man is man.(Romans 5:12) Would you say the auto is cause of a ... 2) The first cause of an idol being what?
1) After Adam sinned the cause of sin in man is sin. Man is under the dominion of sin. Rom 6:14. and Rom 7:17,20.
That one tree was put there by God for a specific purpose only. As you said God planted the tree, He vested it with the power and purpose. Therefore God 'planted' the purpose of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The subsequent whole powerful spectrum of the spiritual realm was placed there in one tree in the garden set against Adam and Eve. No tree - No original sin. Even Satan had to use the tree for his works of temptation, without the tree he would have had no 'instrument' to use.
2) "First Cause" is by God only. HE is the only one who can execute First Cause. An idol can do nothing as God says in the Bible they are dumb.
Remember your original post point was quote; "nothing happens in this world without his orderly arrangement" is hard to interpret differently."
God's sovereignty is absolute and complete over all. Even though man's responsibility is held within that law.
ps "All things" - Col 1:16, John 1:3, Rom 11:36. including 'principalities.'
Mike wrote: You read funny. 1)You asked who planted the tree. I answered: God. Is that the wrong answer? 2)No. Look more closely. I said God established that man should choose. Does man need God to make false gods for him?
1) But Mike, all sin emanates from the original sin. The tree's existence at that moment in history is part causal of sin in man. 2) An idol as choice of replacement god is surely second cause rather than first cause - But this cannot negate the first cause can it?
Mike wrote: 1)God 2)To establish that man shall choose the gods whom he will obey and serve
1) Ah so you blame God for the complete and absolute authority over all that man can potentially do including being bad? Wonder how that plays out under the Arminian realm since man's decisions and choices would then become second cause as opposed to first cause.
2) You mean God established the wrong gods to lead man into sin?
Mike wrote: I don't know any other way to read it, bro. "nothing happens in this world without his orderly arrangement" is hard to interpret differently. Then again, perhaps nothing doesn't really mean nothing. Maybe it means nothing of some things, or some nothing, but not all?
Mike Who planted the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden of Eden?
And what was the purpose and reason for that tree being planted there?
Mike wrote: May I conclude you think Adam would never have sinned had there been no fruit trees in the garden? Or that Cain would not have slain Abel had not there been a tool or a rock in the field?
Yes of course you can conclude that Mike. Now who planted that tree in the first place and provided it with special restrictions???
Since you raise the point mike, then we today are more sinner than Adam ever was, so good logic would be, keep the restricted tree away from the sinners. Don't make them so accessible as to have shops full of them in a sinner filled society.
"There are ~14,869 more gun stores in America than grocery stores. Specifically, there are 51,438 gun retailers and 36,536 grocery stores. There are almost as many gun dealers in America as gas stations. There are a total of 129,817 gun dealers in the country, which include retail stores (51,438), "collectors" (61,562), pawn shops (7,356), and importers and manufacturers. Meanwhile, there are 143,849 gas stations."