Neil wrote: When has there *not* been party politics? This is why one should study history: even monarchies & dictatorships have had factions, not too different from political parties
Ah Neil this is why one should not reply to rhetorical questions.
Perhaps the answer to your question is, "Before there were political parties."
Remember that monarchies and dictatorships were essentially monocratic with the ruler maintaining sympathising like minded coconspirators at his side. (Plus a few sycophants)
DJC49 wrote: 1] Where are you going with this question?
2] Eph 3:10-12 "10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly [places] might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: 12 In whom we have boldness and access"
Did you get that??? The Church ... will show and manifest the wisdom of God......... principalities and powers in heavenly places, i.e., ANGELS.
1] The church is the Body of Christ. Christ is in complete spiritual harmony with God and the Holy Spirit. Thus they are as much a part of the church as the elect.
2] Eph 3 Teaches only that the angels have learning of God's wisdom as much and as indeed we do. These verses do not preclude them from the church and it's spiritual existence. They don't "need" to be on the outside looking in. "If angels, who are permitted to see the face of God, do not walk in faith, neither do they need the outward administration of the word." (Calvin) Thus church is the revelation of the wisdom of God to all including angels and men. But angels are a spiritual part of this revelation in their ministry/learning WITHIN the church, thus members of this divine revelatory work.
DJC49 wrote: That's all GREAT! Be that as it may ... As I stated previously: "Angels aren't MEMBERS of The Church." Nary a one. The ORIGINAL premise (with which I take exception) was: (fact) the angel Gabriel IS a member of The Church. No sir.
Are God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit members of the Church?
"The function of angels may be seen clearly from their part in the saving mission of Jesus Christ. They are naturally present when this both begins with the nativity (Matt.1; Luke 1-3) and ends with the resurrection (Matt.28:2 and pars.) and ascension (Acts 1:10f). They also assist the church in its early ministry (eg. Acts 5:19;10:3). They will play an important part in the events of the end time (Rev.7:1f. etc.). Finally they will come with Christ when he returns in glory (Matt.24:31) and separate the righteous and the wicked (Matt.13:41,49). They do not do the real work of reconciliation, which is Christ's prerogative. But they accompany and declare this work, praising the God of grace and glory and summoning men and women to participate in their worship (Luke 1:46). Interestingly, there seem to be only two angelic appearances between Christ's birth and resurrection: at the beginning of his way to the cross in the temptation (Mark 1:12) and then before the crucifixion itself in Gethsemane (Luke 22:43). This is perhaps because Jesus had to tread his way of atoning self-giving alone, and in his humiliation he is made a little lower than the angels (Heb.2:9) though exalted far above them by nature (Heb 1)"...OOS
Revelation 1:20 .....The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches:
Revelation 2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write
etc etc x seven times
Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
11/25/12 5:19 PM
