Discerning Believer wrote: Michael, whoever translated "reprobate mind" for "depraved mind" reprobates themselves as it is found in your corrupt translations like the NIV. God turned people over to a reprobate mind because they rejected the word of God. These men were totally depraved to start with. That is the natural state of unregenerated man to begin with. The problem with the easy believism presentation of the gospel is the lack of godly sorrow to repentance unto salvation. That indicates no Holy Spirit conviction, just pray this prayer and God will save you, give them 3 verses of assurance that they are now saved. Would you call that true salvation, without sorrow and repetance.
Who cares about easy believism. It's not Calvinism vs Easy Believism. Its Calvinism vs Synergism.
Let us know when you are ready to get back on point.
The problem with the church is that they do a half job. The purpose of the church is not necessarily to win the lost, although that is the essential element. It is to get them saved and teach them all things.
Freddie wrote: Weapon of mass instruction, You hit the nail on the head when you said that a fundamentalist's favorite pasttime is fighting. I am talking about a different group of people who, I believe, I belong to. They are people who love the Lord, love His Word and want to learn from each other prayerfully. I hope you belong to this latter group as well!
I fall into both groups. Honestly, the only place I fight about theology is here.
I would never waste my time doing it in any other context knowing that there are so many that would be saved if they only knew how.
I have had many meaningful conversations with Calvinists on this sight but the hypers seem to always drive them out.
Anyone who should confess Calvinism and befriend me is immediately shunned by those of higher Calvinism.
I am currently learning from a Calvinist on church history hear on SA. I plan to listen to all 75 of his lectures. Very good stuff. I can perceive that he shys away from the embarassing stuff about Calvinism but he at least tries to be honest.
We can all disagree with each other, but we can at least be theologically honest. Unfortunately, not many Calvs here are willing to offer that courtesy.
The problem we have with Calvinism Freddie is that there is not one verse that clearly state any of the truths in Calvinism in any form.
Trust me. I have been asking, begging, and ranting for years for someone to come up with one verse that gives any slight hint. The only thing I have been offered is pet verses with fabricated definitions that do not exist anywhere in the world.
Do you really expect one to ignore such clear statements such as "For God so loved the world" in favor of some nebulous idea found under a theological rock somewhere, so nebulous that one has to create special defintions to get it to fit with its theology?
Thanks for the graciousness, DB but I would have to disagree.
The great commision includes the responsibility of discipleship. Sadly, many churches lack in this area and that is why we have many carnal Christians today. It's not necessarily the converts fault that someone failed to disciple him.
I have personally met with several Christians that were like that.
I would agree that there should at the least be an initial sincere interest in the things of God and a hunger for "milk" like a new babe. But this does not mean that (1) we can fail to nurture a convert and (2) that the convert sometime down the line backslides to such a state that God takes him home.
There is only one external evidence that God dictates in the Bible for salvation and that one is: the chastening of the Lord. Whoever is without chastisement is a b*st*rd.
Ml wrote: Did you also tell her that she must repent or perish? Luk 13:5
R.K. Borill is obviously choking on a gnat. He obviously wants a transcript of the 30 minute dialogue I had with her.
Maybe in the F_anciful L_and of the Calvinist can one ask the Lord to forgive him without calling on his name but not here in the real world.
Unless R.K. believes that that girl is an alien from out of space (which it would not surprise me), it is safe to say that since she is part of the "world" that God loves her just as much as everyone else in the world.
The dehvastating truth is no converts have been made by telling them that God MAY love him, but that he DOES love him.
No converts have ever been made by telling them that they have to be part of the elect, but rather that God desires them to be saved.
The theological vanity of Calvinism can be seen in that they do not even preach Calvinism to the seeking sinner. They call our gospel the false gospel but make no distinction between mine and theres. For someone that hates arminianism, they sure have no problem exploiting its gospel to gain more followers.
R. K. Borill wrote: If you are telling her that all she must do is pray for forgiveness, you have only made her a two-fold child of hell. John 3:16 is more than "For God so loved the world . . .", but it is also "that he gave his only begotten Son THAT WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." If she does not believe in the one and only sacrifice for sins, she is yet in her sins.
She confessed with her own mouth that Jesus' death is her only ticket to heaven. She did not need to say it because its not true. It can't be found in the Bible.
The dehvastating truth is that she did not have to say anything about unconditional election.
The dehvastating truth is that "called" never means unconditional election.