John Yurich USA wrote: Attending church is ...totally superfluous to entering Heaven upon ones demise.
Eph 4 11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the BODY OF CHRIST: 13 till WE ALL come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:....speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 from whom THE WHOLE BODY FITLY JOINED TOGETHER and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
The Church, the Body of Christ, Christ the head, the members fitly joined, all working together for edification, for unity, to attain unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ, and for the work of the ministry!
BUT you are EXEMPT, and think all this superflous?! God didn't know what he was doing and you are here to teach him?
reiterate wrote: For your edification; I see you still prefer the Liberal Anglicans for your personal exegesis of Scripture. Even though Westcott and Hort would be of the same ilk as your good buddy Billy Graham in their favoring bits of popish junk
Is this your REAL name? It's just that there are people on this site who take exception to people using 'false' names. Also did you realise that you are only allowed one 'name' while you are here. Just a warning
20-20 Vision wrote: "Warning" "Faith in the living God and his Son Jesus Christ is always the result of the new birth, and can never exist except in the regenerate. Whoever has faith is a saved man." C.H. Spurgeon from His sermon Faith and Regeneration ....
Strawmen, which all beg the original issue raised!
Read your first post that gave rise to this exchange. You said faith was a faculty! And that this was a new faculty not possessed by someone who is unconverted.
What is faith? It is not a faculty, it is trust i.e. the actions of faculties already possessed. The problem is that the faculties already possessed are averse to the things of God, and so the gift of faith, is the work of the Holy Spirit in regeneration to remove the enmity to God, to break the bondage to sin and to free, enable and determine the will to freely choose Christ with the same faculties that we already possessed!
What you were arguing was that we have a completely new mind, new emotions and a new will, which is plain rubbish, and even the WCF agrees with me. I can choose out passages from Spurgeon too which state the same thing! But this is getting boring, because having raised the issue you are not concentrating on it but trying to divert attention away from it.
20-20 Vision wrote: "Warning" NO!! YOU are not Calvinist in your theology. ...
The issue was what does it mean for faith to be a gift, not whether man is active or passive in conversion, or whether in conversion there is a new nature imparted.
Read the WCF on effectual calling:
All those whom God hath predestinated unto life, and those only, he is pleased, in his appointed and accepted time, effectually to call, by his Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation by Jesus Christ: enlightening their minds, spiritually and savingly, to understand the things of God, taking away their heart of stone, and giving unto them an heart of flesh; ***renewing their wills, and by his almighty power determining them to that which is good; and effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ; yet so as they come most freely, being made willing by his grace."***
What does it mean to renew the will?
Section on Freewill:
IV. When God converts a sinner and translates him into the state of grace, ****he freeth him from his natural bondage under sin, and, by his grace alone, enables him freely to will and to do that which is spiritually good ***...
20-20 Vision wrote: Bible reads Eph 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast." Arminian/synergist Bible reads 8 For by grace are ye saved through *(Your own human faculty of)* faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. Read it folks and please see how rediculous it is to ascribe this necessary faith, essential faculty, to a sinner in his natural state.
I reject the above as a complete misunderstanding of what calvs say about faith being a gift - AND I say this as a Calv.
Faith is not a faculty! It is the combined activity of the human faculties of mind, emotions and will which together rest, or trust in God's salvation. And trust is definitely an action of faculties which we already possess. The idea behind faith being a gift is that God by the Holy Spirit frees our faculties which are bound to sin, Satan and the world, so that we can come freely to rest in Him.
Please ignore this post friends. Shame on you 20-20 for fudging the issue!