their doctrinal errors are a mute point, what they do to one religious organization they will do to all, the gay crowd and the civil authorities will not give you a break because your beliefs are orthodox
JIH. What can we say, you correctly pointed out that all mankind is worthy of hell and damnation. BTW, that includes you and me. We were by nature children of wrath but God in His mercy opened our eyes to the truth of the gospel and granted us repentance and faith.
How does your post compare to our Lord weeping over Jerusalem? How does your post compare to the apostle Paul who wished himself accursed from Christ for his lost brethren? How does your post compare to some having compassion making a difference and others save with fear pulling them out of the fire? How does it compare with the love for the lost someone had for you when they proclaimed to you the truth of the gospel? God Himself stated He has no pleasure in the death of the wicked but they would turn from their evil ways and live.
We all look forward in great anticipation when the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ and righteousness and holiness are found in all our dwellings because there shall in no wise enter in any that works abomination and without are those who practice lawlessness.
Our hearts should break for the wickedness in the world around us and that alas we find even in our own unmortified members. (Luke 9:55)
ladybug wrote: To US, Mike NY, and Michael of Endicott I am NOT implying that worship is dead, cold, and robotic. I am stating that worship should NOT be based on outside sources, such as music, used to play on the emotions and 'whip up' fleshly actions based on those emotions. Worship comes from within, from an understanding of the great and mighty Jehovah God. It manifests itself in proper reverence and awe for such a glorious God. ....
ladybug, thanks for the clarification and the quotes.
Brother John UK, we have proved Psalm only to be inaccurate so many times before, just not worth the effort. If he was seeking the truth that would be one thing, how many times has God patiently dealt with me when teaching me lessons. I just see same old inaccurate view being pushed out again by Psalm only, he is more than welcome to his point of view, he won't stand before me but God. It has been shown to fall short of what saith the Scriptures.
the person born from above is not passive during the regeneration process. Why would our Lord say strive to enter in at the strait gate? Although it is wrought by God, it is not the Holy Spirit that feels conviction of His sin, He has none. it is not the Father that calls out for salvation, He doesn't need it. It is not the Lord Jesus that makes confession of salvation, it is the individual who is redeemed. You left out Philippians 2:12 that says THEY are to WORK OUT THEIR salvation with fear and trembling. Look at the verse you quote, I LABOURED MORE ABUNDANTLY THAN THEY ALL. He recognized the grace of God was working "WITH ME"
Human faculties are not used? Then why does Scripture talk about believing with the heart and say with the mouth confession is made unto salvation? Why does the Holy Spirit convict of sin, righteousness and judgment if the person is completely passive, it would not matter. Your argument is with what God says in His Word.
I Thessalonians 1:3 remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ
ladybug wrote: Unprofitable Servant, By 'senses', I am referring to emotions and feelings; and methods used to appeal to such....
Just for clarification, are you saying that emotions and feelings are not involved in our worship to God?
I ask because loving God with all our heart, grieving not the Spirit, sorrow for sin, being joyful in His presence, longing for more holiness, hating and loathing sin, all are use of our emotions.
Not trying to argue just trying to get more clarification if you would be so kind.
Mr. Pink's statement, in an otherwise well written piece (although Cornelius would put a dent in his first major premise), quoted by Mike borders on gnosticism. Read Luke 7:36-50 (a story he references even) and tell me his statement is accurate.
ladybug wrote: Mike, I included the link to Pink's article, did you read it? It is sad that in our day, so many want to worship by 'experience' rather than with reverence and awe. They want their senses to be excited, forgetting that it isn't about us....it's about Him.
I guess I need definition here. the 5 senses are Sight, hearing, smell, taste, touch. Last I knew we don't check our body at the door during corporate worship. So, what do you mean by their senses excited? Do you mean it literally or are you talking about their emotions? their intellect?
John Glass, Psalm 46:10, Isaac going into the field to meditate, and other Scriptures challenge you assertion you made to brother Mike. Even C H Spurgeon noted, "There are times when solitude is better than society, and silence is wiser than speech. We should be better Christians if we were more alone, waiting upon God, and gathering through meditation on His Word spiritual strength for labor in his service. We ought to muse upon the things of God, because we thus get the real nutriment out of them."
In general, worship should not be compartmentalized in our life, public worship stems from private worship. Everything we do, even the most mundane, should be with the goal of glorifying God.
Mike wrote: You got me, Polfer. Now that that is settled, perhaps you can provide examples of worship that excludes the senses. Or is it that when you attend worship services, you wear mittens, blinders for your eyes, a clothespin on your nose, and earplugs. Can't have those Arminian senses interfering with worship, don't you know.
Faith, in the Scripture, is spoken of under the emblem of all the senses. It is sight: âLook unto me and be ye saved.â It is hearing: âHear, and your soul shall live.â Faith is smelling: âAll thy garments smell of myrrh, and aloes, and cassiaâ; âthy name is as ointment poured forth.â Faith is spiritual touch. By this faith the woman came behind and touched the hem of Christâs garment, and by this we handle the things of the good word of life. Faith is equally the spiritâs taste. âHow sweet are thy words to my taste! yea, sweeter than honey to my lips.â âExcept a man eat my flesh,â saith Christ, âand drink my blood, there is no life in him.â
Now I suppose Polfer will say Spurgeon was an Arminian.
What you have in moniker man is head knowledge of our Lord not heart understanding and seeking. He has not tasted of the sweet fellowship the believer has in Christ and thus walks by sight and not by faith.
penned wrote: 5 pt salt, muller, hudson taylor and china "... neutralized Christianity, leaving the Chinese âhelpless against the military onslaught of the Communists.â Fully expecting an imminent ârapture,â multitudes of Chinese Christians were tortured and slaughtered. On the other hand, non-millenarians fled. Hiding safely in the mountains, they kept Chinese Christianity alive."
again pennnnnnnnnnnnnnned, you and your sources, picture those who hold to a premillineal view as nothing more than Harold Camping followers. I have been in these circles for over forty years. I don't see people sitting on their hands waiting for Christ return. I hear messages about work for the night is coming, about occupying until He comes, about fighting the good fight of faith. I see people sacrificing for the furtherance of God's kingdom. Are they perfect, no.
I simply believe Joel Taylor paints with too broad a brush imho. In Mr. Taylor's case although he may have many valued things to say, in some areas I would say he runs into difficulties because he starts with inaccurate assumptions thus reaching inaccurate conclusions.
Jim Lincoln wrote: Mike of New York, why not Bush? Republicans soon start putting halos on their ex-presidents, e.g., Nixon. Since I didn't work for him, they decided to castigate him as really being a Democrat. No, I sell an interesting article on booze-head Bush, just recently, which was the first on the list of responses to this thread, so why not put it up? I just want to show the typical type of person that Republicans pick to be President. also the show what a sterling example he was to his daughters. As my last article mention, even Chelsea Clinton, was much more moral than the Bush twins. No, Babyface Bush would meet the qualifications to be an elder and a good church. Of course I never saw you met the qualifications to be a president either.
Even if former president Bush was all that you claim he is and had all the bad characteristics to which you assign him, then where is your realization that apart from the grace of God you would occupy his shoes or worse. You will do well to check your pride at the door.
John 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
The gospel is God's love in action, we need not fear that because most of soil upon which its seeds fall are wayside, stony and thorny ground hearers that it diminishes the good soil in which it by God's grace becomes planted. We know not where God has placed the Lydia's of this world whose heart He has opened to the truth of His gospel. The fact that God's sheep do hear His voice and follow Him is an encouragement to those who sow in tears that they will one day reap in joy as God saves those who are His.
My apologies for the lengthy response. Thank you for the admonition we all need to heed about being more fervent in our efforts to spread the gospel. God's blessing to you my brother as you serve Him.
Titus 3:3-5 For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another. But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, Remember Paul said the love of Christ constrained him and reminded us His love was exhibited to us while we were sinners.
What type of gospel presentation lets the sinner know he is under condemnation because of his sin and does not point to the mercy that he can find at the cross by repenting and calling upon the name of the Lord for salvation.
Of course we have Biblical authority, Christ Jesus came to seek and to save that which was lost, you don't think that was motivated by His love???
Where do you see a holding back of telling others of God's grace to save the lost because somehow it harms the doctrine of election? Paul said he was free from the blood of ALL men. Did he hold back an impassioned plea to Herod and Agrippa because he feared the were not elect?
Sister Dorcas what blessed news, thank God, we rejoice with you
To Rodney part one...
Do you believe that God's mercy is a product of His love or His wrath?
Isaiah 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
Romans 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in UNBELIEF, that he might have mercy upon all.
Ephesians 2:3-5 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, EVEN WHEN WE WERE DEAD IN SINS, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Micah 7:18 Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.
1 Peter 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy
s c wrote: Unprofitable Servant, have any thoughts?
Dear sister sc, I am honored that you would ask my thinking on this matter. The fact is you are probably better educated than I am on it, and I need to learn from you. I know that one of the local preachers up here who used to put out a monthly paper wrote against cremation and my pastor says he made an excellent case.
The Bible does mention cremation, i.e. the body of Saul and it was not uncommon during the time our Lord walked upon the earth, but it seems it was a more common practice to bury the deceased. (let the dead bury the dead, and we have the Israelites cleansing the land for 7 years by buring the dead, although Lurker will probably say that was figurative ) even Job talked about worms consuming his body when speaking of the resurrection. One way or the other we return to the dust.
There are probably much more learned brothers or sisters here in this matter. One thing is for certain, God will resurrect the body no matter how it is desposed of. Not sure I was much help, God bless.
Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die... (Ezekiel 33:11)
God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance (II Peter 3:9)
God commends His love to us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us (Romans 5:8)
Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest... (Mark 10:21) --significant because it is written about a non-elect person
What we DON'T know is who among the "gays" God will call unto Himself. Who would have thought that Saul of Tarsus would be one of God's choicest saints.
In whom we live and move and have our being and in whose hand thy breath is, were spoken to lost people.
If God gives them air to breath, food to eat, and other temporal blessings He is being loving toward them.
You will not find the Lord Jesus or any of the apostles reaching out to the lost with the message of the hatred of God to them. They are reminded they are under His wrath but that is to get them to flee from it.
Sure, we need to defend and uphold the doctrines of grace, but we remember that Christ Jesus came to seek and to save sinners
Helps, thanks again for your reply. I think I am understanding you to believe that if one takes the literal Bible genre then ALL must be taken literally. Which it obviously is not. I don't trim my wick everyday or sheer my wool. Also, as noted previously some passages that are figurative have literal fulfillment. Jesus said His sheep hear his voice and follow Him. I believe those born from above hear His voice in regeneration and they follow Him, I don't think they transform into an actual sheep. (obviously there is even more than can be derived from our Lord's analogy)
Some do carry the literal interpretation too far and actually limit their Bible to just a few passage they see applying to today, I believe all Scripture is profitable.
The passage in Genesis talks about the seed of the women. Eve certainly took it literally when she had Seth. If something is stated figuratively, we take it figuratively. I don't see that as inconsistent with a literal approach.
The Bible says flee youthful lust, we take that literally. The Bible says love the Lord your God, we take that literally. The Bible says let your light shine, we take that figuratively with a literal application of having a testimony that glorifies God.