ahh, the Christmas debate. it is good however that the truth about these matters is expressed at this time, because there are those who may not be aware and are new to the forum. We should, however, be careful (not referencing any previous posts in this thread) to express the truth in love, and that does not mean banging people over the head with it because it is correct, it means a realization that what knowledge we have is due to the grace of God (I Cor 4:7)and humbly, graciously expressing it.
There are many in Christendom who know nothing of the truths about these holidays and see Christmas, incorrectly, as a celebration of the birth of their Lord and Savior. They try to honor the Lord in the way they celebrate it and should not be ill thought of for trying to so do. I believe that if they are truly seeking God, the truths about Christmas and Easter will be learned.
So, to the newbies, there is much truth being put forth here that you need to consider.
Discussing this with JY, probably not profitable.
Rom 14:5,6a One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it.
Penny, you know we agree that churches should not be 501c3. But I am wondering. By the way that you consistently portray 501c3 churches in your posts, they already take their marching orders from the state and do whatever they tell them to keep their tax exempt status. So, why would they have to be concerned with LGBT suits seeing they just follow the state orders? Wouldn't it be the non 501c3 churches that need to protect themselves and 501c3 would be an non-issue?
Forgiviness does not mean you escape the consequences of your actions. God forgave David but he lost the child and paid fourfold. The pastor must pay back the money and serve any prison time assigned. What church would be willing to give him the opportunity to pastor, they would rightly fear that they would be the next victim. Not given to filthy lucre is one of many things that would now disqualify him from the pastorate. Restoration means a renewed relationship with God not a return to the pulpit.
Texan wrote: I can appreciate the idea, but we're told not to make graven images... We worship Jesus, not the men. Just saying what the Word says. I don't write the mail, I just deliver it.
Best I can see they are not making graven images, nor are they encouraging people to bow down and worship their art.
A graven image was clearly a depiction that was to represent God (that is where the bow down and worship comes in) SA is not attempting to make any images of God.
Read your Bible, my friend, particularly the part where they made Solomon's temple (many more examples could be given) and you will see that making artistic renderings is not the same as making graven images.
Remember the creation of the serpent (a graven image)in Numbers 21, happened AFTER the giving of the Decalogue and was commanded by God. It was not destroyed until it became an object of worship, thus violating the 2nd commandment, long afterward. Obviously, the graven image in and of itself did not constitute a violation of the 2nd commandment when it was made.
Good break wrote: Get Real called as expert witness Connie, & Unprofitable Servant also said that was a good source. Connie says "The Sons of God in the Old Testament did not refer to human believers. It referred to angels only. Secondly, just because angels do not marry does not mean they are sexless."
It would do well to not be deceptive in the use of material you are using to try and prove your point. The article quote that is noted above was the author saying what the beliefs of Mike Hoggard are not their own beliefs and that is quite evident if you read what was written.
The chapters, verses, paragraphs and punctuation were all add later by translators to help us navigate the Scriptures. They serve their purpose to that end. To make up Bible doctrine using those numbers is a violation of adding to the Word of God.
To discourage people from having a Berean spirit to search the Scriptures, which Hoggard apparently does, is a practice of all who try to hide the truth not those who want to propagate it.
A lengthy discussion of whether the sons of God were or were not angels isn't that which leads to godliness but only genders strife, which we are told to avoid. (II Timothy 2:23) So, I leave the discussion to others if they wish.
Bud Brown wrote, Law cannot make people or nations good. Only grace can do this.
First no one, including the so called Moral Majority, is saying that law can make people good. Laws act as restraints not as reformationist. There is such thing as good or bad laws.
The reason we had a three-fifths rule for slaves is because those who were "representing" the slaves were pro-slavery and not giving them more power (because they would have had a larger majority in Congress due to population) was due of an understanding of the founding fathers that what one believes affects what kind of laws they would pass. I am sure the slaves would have rather that none of them were counted in the census for the assignment of congressional delegates.
If the thinking of the people who make up the legislative body is not important, then there is no need to hold elections. People who don't hold to the founding principles, strict constructionism and rule of law are a law unto themselves. Whatever makes sense to them becomes the governing principle. We are all suffering the consequences of such thinking from either party.
"When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn." (Proverbs 29:2)
Get Real wrote: i don't think its racist ... i know it's an occultist teaching ... thats why Pastor Hoggard used Albert Pike's book morals and dogma to back it up ... the fact that other SA preachers preach the same heresy is nothing new ... many are the Pastors here, does being a SA Pastor give one the "gold stamp of truth"? he doesn't refute pike ... he uses the occultist teaching called "as above so below" http://www.themystica.com/mystica/articles/a/below_above.html he is engaged in the occultist great commission called "externalization of the hierarchy" http://www.esoteric-philosophy.net/heir-extern.html
I would like to say from research I have done I would cast my lot with Get Real about Pastor Hoggard and would like to see SA remove him from their list of preachers.
If you took the time to read the rather lengthy post she referenced in her first post, you will see a well thought out assessment by someone who has listened to hours of his preaching. If hoggy fan totally relied on the Word of God as he/she says, then they would realize that Mike Hoggard does not bur counts on special revelations he "says" he has from Scripture. As Christopher says he may not be a false prophet but his teachings should be taken with a grain of salt.
Lurker wrote: ... Bro US, Yes, exactly as you wrote it. Coming under the condemnation of the law was the cause of his blindness and death which passed when he received the HS and thereby similar to Deut 29:4. Blessings to all.
Brother Lurker, back to the discussion, to make sure we are on same page. The Scriptures teach that through the law is the knowledge of sin. Our Lord stated that one of the functions of the Holy Spirit was to convict men of sin. Now we know that includes the unregenerate because He said, "Of sin, because they believe not on me;" (John 16:9) So, one of the things you seem to be saying is that much of what goes out as gospel presentation is lacking because it is not using the pattern shown in Scripture and that the Holy Spirit indeed speaks to those who are not saved with the seed of the Word of God.
s c wrote: U S, thank you. I'll check it out. A quick check of the word "excellent" in the Bible wasn't confirming license though. Surely,you wouldn't suggest that Christians who know better about words like "gosh" continue to misuse them. I'm guessing... or do you think that Christians can be subjective with such information?
sc, I apologize, I did not realize you were trying to address the broader subject of minced oaths with your question. For the record, I believe that they should be avoided as not honoring to God. Hope that answers your question.
s c wrote: ... If God's name is excellent ALONE,then should Christians be using the word "excellent" in regards to anything/anyone else other than God? What I do know,is that ignorance isn't an excuse that's why I'm asking.
sc, not sure if you are actually wondering or making what you consider to be a definitive statement to which you think all must adhere.
If you go to the Blue Letter Bible site you will note the word excellent, is translated more often with words like high, safe, strong, and exalted. Only translated excellent in verse cited and is with the corollary phrase that His glory is above the the earth and heaven. The verse would seem be saying His name is alone be exalted.
If you use a concordance you will find, to list a few, the word excellent in reference to king Ahasuerus, preceding the word speech and things, describing the statue that Nebuchadnezzar saw in a dream (Daniel's words), describing the spirit found in Daniel, and also used by Luke to describe Theophilus.
Do what you believe the Lord is leading you to do with your statement, but I would be careful not to try and bind the conscience of all Christians to it.
Hey brother Lurker, I hope you see this, but just checking on the site before retiring for the night, the discussion brought a question to my mind. Just wondering (straying away from the physical blindness discussion if I may) would you say when the Lord said to Saul it is hard for you to kick against the pricks, that it would be referring to the law of God speaking to the conscience of Saul and as he said in Romans,the commandment came, sin revived and I died?
John UK wrote: .. The long, drawn out, altar call, with music...
Our Lord told Nicodemus that a person who is truly born from above is analogous to the wind. We can't see the wind but we know it is there by the effects it produces.
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. (II Corinthians 5:17)
If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. (I John 1:6-7)
What John UK describe is also a reminder of how the ecumenical crusades preach a false gospel. Even if the message from the pulpit was sound, if a RCC goes forward, they are told the way they become "saved" is though the sacraments of the RCC church. Another counselor might advise they have to be water baptized or some other works salvation. Some would be advised it is just an intellectual exercise they perform. Paul minced no words about those who give out false gospel, let them be accursed.
ladybug wrote: US, My point was that the order is wrong, sinners cannot repent and believe without first being quickened by the Spirit. For any who may be interested, this sermon by Asahel Nettleton on regeneration is worth reading - http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/sdg/nettleton_regeneration.html It may be listened to at http://www.sermonaudio.com/playpopup.asp?SID=81507915172 For Mike NY, "Ye are of God, my little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world." 1 John 4:4 hereby know we that we abide in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit. 1 John 4:13 And he that keepeth his commandments abideth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he gave us. 1 John 3:24
ladybug wrote: ... This is what the Grahams believe, "repentance of sin and faith in Jesus Christ results in regeneration by the Holy Spirit."
that was Peter's message (Acts 2)
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
that is what Phillip preached (Acts 8)
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
that was what Paul preached (Acts 26)
20 ... then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
Maybe you could clarify, sister ladybug, (not sticking up for the Grahams or their method of evangelism) but you don't see a gospel message with the words stand still and see the salvation of the Lord. Unless you are saying the order is wrong, that the second half of the sentence should be the first half.
Acts 17:30 ... God winked at; but now commands all men every where to repent
penny wrote: well, that was a very nice compliment. good try bud. however..... as one female politician said that men should be in concentration camps, the end is the same for you! (you thought you could placate my mood with a compliment? how insulting!)