To the person engaging sc, out of courtesy to her, don't waste her time, she will never see your point and therefore you are wasting your time also. Do as you wish, just saying it is going to go nowhere fast.
Brother Lurker, I believe you should allow for both a literal and a spiritual (as you have aptly shown) interpretation. I don't think you can separate the 2nd half of the command from the first (Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God) as verses and punctuation are not part of the original.
While God commanded to destroy the pagan pictures, images, and gods (Numbers 33:52) He allowed for the brazen serpent, graven work on the priest garment, bells and pomegranates on the hem of the high priest garment, the 10 commandments were engraven on stone by God Himself, the pillars in Solomon's temple, the 12 oxen, the molten sea with images engraven on it, the cherubim, even while the tabernacle was in curtains it contained art work. Ezekiel was commanded to draw a portrait of Jerusalem and lay siege against with battering rams. Jeremiah was commanded by God to use a loincloth that was marred as an object lesson.
The bronze serpent was not an issue, until the violation of the second half of the commandment (II KIngs 18:4)
If we say there is no literal interpretation of the 2nd commandment, what about the other 9?
so saddening to hear such a story, a solemn reminder to all that life on earth is short and we have no guarantee of tomorrow. May it be a reminder to live for that which above and lay our treasures up in heaven to honor our God. Prayers go out for the many loved ones affected, can't help but wonder if such a scene will be repeated countless times in countless places.
Enough already wrote: It certainly was not for the sake of righteousness that Johnuk
you have spoken against John in your last 4 posts, 3 in this thread alone. You don't think you made you point in your previous posts? At this point you are not giving admonitions from love (see verse below) and concern, you are simply trying to stir the pot,score brownie points, or somehow think you build yourself up by putting someone else down.
He who covers a transgression seeks love, But he who repeats a matter separates friends.
It is up to you if you will follow the Word of God at this point or continue your vendetta.
pennned wrote: dear one, no one is saying such things. there are beautiful things in this life to feel and experience. did you know that forgiveness is both an actuality and an emotion? think about it, if you don't feel forgiveness in your heart towards another (still resentment), it isn't there, you gotta get back to the Lord for that. then there's joy, with the presence of the Lord is joy. I'll not intellectualize that too much. There are some who never experience the joy of the Lord, that is sad to hear. yes, we should know His joy and peace. Freud is the one who taught that emotions are to be suspect, to be conquered. I say let Christ rule over all areas of one's life, let the peace of God surpass understanding, the fruit of the Spirit being love joy peace patience kindness, etc, all require personal input. truth and love are written together frequently. or truth in love.
William S. Sutherland wrote: GSTexas, Didn't you know that modern scholars have proven that the KJV was based on false manuscripts written by George W. and the GOP? I'm surprised Jim hasn't furnished the link.
based on earlier post by here is your problem, it might even involve weapons of math destruction
D. C. J. wrote: A carved image of anything used in the way that the cross/crucifix is used by some today is pure unadulterated idolatry. Nothing in Scripture supports this ideology.
You obviously have no understanding of the second commandment.
It has been pointed out by numerous posters that it deals with worshiping the image as God.
You refuse to see the truth of that, your choice, but don't deceive yourself into thinking it is good Bible interpretation. Nor is it a good idea to try to force your misinterpretation as something others should heed. Good day.
DCJ, I am actually saddened by your lack of understanding of the preciousness of the cross of Christ.
Col. 2:14 (see NeedHim post 10:59)
Col. 1:20a And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself;
Gal. 6:14 (see NeedHim post 10:59)
Do a study of the word crucified or crucify and see its significance in living the Christian life.
See, how Peter called the blood that our Lord shed on it, precious. See how God the Father accepted the travail of our Lord's soul as He took the punishment for sins, and He was satisfied.
See how we have it in remembrance when we take communion.
Do we see it as a murder weapon??? Our Lord stated no man takes His life from Him and after declaring our sin debt paid in full, hallelujah, He yield up His life.
We glory in the cross. The person who wears the necklace (your example) they don't worship it, they don't bow down to it, they don't see it as a likeness of God (thus they are not disobeying the 2nd commandment) they hold it dear because of what it represents. Just like the apostles did. Even our Lord said we should take up our cross daily and follow him.
If the cross is to you nothing more than a graven image, it is sad indeed.
wow, this is a long thread through which to read. Glad to see a discussion on the truths of Scripture.
Let me add that James and Lurker are brothers beloved. As stated in other posts, they are students of the Scripture of whom I Timothy 2:15 would be an apt description. If you disagree with their thinking you best have your thinking cap on and Bible in hand. Their thinking goes deeper than what can be expressed in 1300 characers or less. That is why you see them asking questions. These men, like many others who faithfully post here, love the Lord and desire His truth be taught.
I will stop being an interruption in the thread but I wanted to vouch, like Mike, for both of them as true servants of the Living God.
Enough already, I have no interest in your issues with John UK, what you say is between him and you. But if you didn't realize it, John is 5 hours ahead of EDT, which means at the time (7:11)the comment was made it was 11 minutes after midnight on Sunday morning for him. John is pretty serious about his use of the Lord's day and more than likely was in bed at the time of the comment was made. Also, he has stated more than once, that his does not change monikers. Just a fyi, he probably did not make the comment to which you refer.
All of us have to deal with this sinful flesh, it is a constant battle. The fact that we stumble is a humble reminder that we are all human and in daily need of His grace. Your comment about John was that his pride had reared its ugly head. What does not appear to be seen in your comment to him is the spirit of meekness considering yourself lest you also be tempted. I will leave that for you to judge. It also seems it was a matter between MS and John UK (see Proverbs 26:17) God's blessing to you.
Psalms Only wrote: e. === Question: What does the Word of God mean to you? Easily discarded?
as B McCausland has stated you have not made your case from Scripture that God only accepts Psalms only in music. I have proven to you more than once from the Bible how God accepted songs of praise not found in the Psalms. (see also B McCausland post 10/16 11:36 a.m.) So, the question goes back to you.
What does the Word of God mean to you? Easily discarded?
also since you brought it up, you do realize God inspired His Word, not the people who wrote it. For someone to say it was written by fallible men does not call Its truths into question. Your lack of understanding of basic doctrine does not bode well for you.
some people who post allege inaccurate ramifications of what is said and then falsely accuse the person who disagreed with them of having a belief they don't have, due to an agenda they are pushing. I am trying NOT to do that here as I look at what Psalms only posted.
According to what he posted on 10/15 @ 3:29 p.m. hymn singing is used to separate people from their Bible, serve for entertainment and leads to heresy, liberalism and rejection of the Bible.
Let us paint a couple scenarios
We have a person who is settling down for their quiet time with God. Before they start their time in Scripture they are reflecting over how faithful God has been. Like Jeremiah they are welling up with thankfulness that God would be so gracious to one so undeserving. They are moved to sing Chisolm's hymn, Great is Thy Faithfulness, in gratitude to God. According to Psalm only, the next thing they do is lose interest in reading and meditating on the Bible because they sang a hymn of praise. Really???
P.O. also said choir singing is simply entertainment. Some people watch tv, others play games, maybe a movie or a sports venue. But the one entertainment that will make you give up your Bible is listening to a choir sing a song of praise to God???
BRF wrote: US I accept Mary was well into her pregnancy but a last minute arrival still not proven. Why is it important? because we are to worship God in Spirit and Truth. How we worship God is very important. To reduce the great and central doctrine of Christ coming into the world to save sinners to nothing more than a childish story which is what most churches reduce it to, like many of their Sunday schools today reduces Christianity to childish story telling is counter productive. I seen this personal as children grow up they leave childish things behind including the childish gospel which sadly many of them have been taught. Especially at Christmas. Spirit and Truth not myth and childishness. Is the worship we are to give.
BRF, the thing is there is no proof that your version is correct either. It is pure conjecture that they were there many days. What is important is the event. Not the day it took place, not whether it was inside or outside, not how long they had been in Bethlehem before it happened.
Psalms only I have shown countless times that the songs offered up in the Bible are NOT Psalms only. If you have an issue with that take it up with the Author.
BRF wrote: US the text does not indicate how long they were in Bethlehem
And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from CÃ¦sar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed. 2 (And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.) 3 And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city. 4 And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into JudÃ¦a, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David: 5 to be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.
6 And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered. 7 And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.
the text clearly states at the time that the journey began she was great with child. I am really not sure why it is of great importance how long they were in the city before the actual birth.
BRF, from Galilee to Bethlehem was about 70 - 80 miles. So, the journey for the person who was said to be great with child, took maybe a week at the most. The text gives indication that they were not there long before the birth of our Lord. So, Mike's statement would seem to be accurate, would you agree?
As to the date, some believe that because the Scripture talks of God tabernacling among us, it would have been around the feast of tabernacles, an event that just happened. The thing is the date is not important, the event is. The birth of Christ is something to celebrate and give thanks for daily!!
"Thanks be unto God for His unspeakable gift" (2 Corinthians 9:15)
BRF wrote: Luke 2:And so it was, that while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered. Luke places the family in Bethlehem already in situ at the time of Christ's birth.