No Jim it is Media Matters that puts out fake ultra liberal distorted news, If you watch the news, guess what, they EDIT the videos you watch. NBC even edited a 911 call about Trayvon Martin, it is what liberals constantly do, they distort the news. The unedited videos were always made available at the Center for Medical Progress website, so they weren't hiding anything. Planned parenthood was caught admitting to selling baby parts, so it wasn't a false accusation.
You really should give some consideration to what you post and the warning of the 9th commandment. See also Colossians 3:9
Not sure how you comprehend how One atonement that somehow has two completely different effects. "It is finished," one Greek word stamped on papers of those who had cleared their indebtedness meaning paid in full (hallelujah). You have God sending the impentitent lost to hell for sins already paid for by the precious blood of the Lamb. Pretty odd when God says they are condemned already. Did not the blood of Christ clear you from condemnation for your sins? There is as pointed out in the verses you posted only One atonement not two. Either it works or it doesn't.
J4J we aren't going to give you the best of both worlds. If it is only applied to those who believe then it is a limited atonement or a particular redemption that only atones for the sins of believers and not one that applies to all. You gotta make up your mind it is one or the other.
Ever read the rest if the New Testament? Do you understand John 1:11-13 or Ephesians 2 :11-22? Christ advised those lepers He cleansed to go offer the sacrifices Moses commanded. You shouldn't pull verses out of context. Your opinion of the truth of that verse makes your salvation impossible
Need Him, do as you wish, but your topic of discussion with J4J had taken up multiple pages of posts and gone nowhere
J4J is a setter forth of strange new doctrine on this other sheep matter. Strange and new renderings of what saith the Scripture are not new to him though. If our Lord meant additional Jewish believers He would have said more sheep have I in verse 16. Note the many times we see the phrase to the Jew first in the New Testament. Ladybug did an excellent analysis on this in her last post. Our Lord said in this passage that He lays down His life for His sheep, if it is only Jews, how are Gentiles saved? It even throws out His universal atonement argument as His death would be only for the Jews of that time.
John UK wrote: Bro US, I look forward to hearing how J4 answers that question: "How do you know it will work for you if it fails for the vast majority?" I have been shocked recently when I realised there are some professing believers who never teach the four gospels, the teachings of Christ, because of a strange belief about Israel. So as Gentiles, they can ignore most of Jesus teachings, but pick out verses like John 3:16.
John for Jesus wrote: 1. but it is only applied to people who believe.
2.Jesus already atoned for the sins of the whole world
1. That makes it limited, does it not?
2. So the same propitiation for your sins that took the punishment you deserved doesn't have the same efficacy for the unregenerate? If you believe that His atonement is the payment in full for your sins and you are no longer condemned because of it, how is it possible the same atonement, which you said is atonement for sins OF the whole world, leaves multitudes to die owing that debt? How do you know it will work for you if it fails for the vast majority?
Don't confuse the sufficiency of the atonement. If God chose to save all living and previously perished humanity so that all went to heaven, Jesus would not have to shed one more drop of His precious blood it would cover all the sins of the whole world. But thank God, the Scripture says He loved the church (we cannot comprehend why) and gave Himself (hallelujah) for it.
If the sheep in John 10 were only the lost sheep of the house of Israel and not the other sheep mentioned in verse 6 how did you hear His voice (v 27)?
The democrats, who are solely responsible for Obamacare, admitted they lied about keeping your doctor and your plan and how much it was going to cost because they figured you were too stupid.
Obama says elderly shouldn't get needed help, just take a pill and deal with it
Obamacare for ending the elderly
Here is a sad story about how universal healthcare works for those in Canada
Universal "healthcare" means don't get sick and if you do, hurry up and die.
Currently according to the CDC, 28.4 millions without health coverage but the press and the dems are complaining that the number per the CBO under "replacement plan" would be 26 million without it. Looks like the Republican plan insures more than the current democrat plan. (both are bad ideas) Many whose premiums are subsidized have deductibles that equal the vast majority of their income, so for all intents and purposes they have no healthcare coverage.
With friends like Jim who define the above as caring and compassionate, who needs enemies?
Didn't realize Jim from Lincoln was writing game software.
Gay Allen, if it is on the Vox website it can't be trusted.
The so called Affordable Health Care wanted us to pay about 75% of our income for healthcare, and we are seasoned citizens.
Any way you look at it, it is NOT the government's responsibility to provide healthcare for any age group. By definition it will be a boondoggle with massive waste and rising costs. (Medicare and Medicaid come to mind) Last but not least, corporations are not the bad guy.
Jim Lincoln wrote: Why, Mike, it's right there on the Declaration of Independence about the pursuit of happiness.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, THAT THEY ARE ENDOWED BY THEIR CREATOR with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
Are you saying you are created by your government???
While we are at it, might as well throw out the "general welfare" argument you might try. Because if you are faring well, then you are not sick.
Constitution still law of land and you can't name a place in it where it is said to be the government's responsibility to provide healthcare.
Our government does "provide" healthcare for a group of our citizens, they are known as veterans. How's that working out? Not good if your are sick that is for sure.
Long waits, personal doctors visits don't happen, people feigning illness to get medical attention, medicine and medical procedures denied, doctors refusing to work (can't blame them you wouldn't work without compensation) ever increasing cost mark ALL government run healthcare systems including ours, it is not compassion it is control. Not a legitimate government function.
John Yurich USA wrote: Isn't is good enough that I attend a Baptist Church on Sunday mornings without ceasing to attend the Catholic Church on Saturday afternoons?
All I see in your "testimony" is what works you do. You attend a Baptist church, you attend Mass (btw, how does line up with the admonition from Scripture, neither be partaker of other men's sins: keep thyself pure?)you walked an aisle. John Y, salvation is of the Lord, it involves getting a new nature from Heaven above. One that is implanted by God into the quickened soul of the undeserving sinner. It is the work of the Triune God whereby we are translated FROM the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of His precious Son. We are given His Spirit calling out Abba Father and a desire to please Him in all that we do. According to Titus 2 it teaches us to deny ungodliness (like the RCC) and worldly lusts and to live soberly, righteously, and godly in this world, because He redeemed us FROM all iniquity (like the RCC Mass)and as we look for His glorious appearing we are zealous, not devoid, of good works wrought by God in our lives for His glory It is not a testimony of what I have done but what God has done. You're zealous for the RCC to defend it as a "true" Christian faith.
John Yurich USA wrote: That is totally false to state that Catholics do not believe in the biblical Virgin** Mary.
Ever hear of The Immaculate Conception
"Let‚Äôs take the second citation first. Mary, too, required a Savior. Like all other descendants of Adam, she was subject to the necessity of contracting original sin. But by a special intervention of God, undertaken at the instant she was conceived, she was preserved from the stain of original sin and its consequences. She was therefore redeemed by the grace of Christ, but in a special way‚ÄĒby anticipation"
Pope Leo XIII: ‚ÄúThe recourse we have to Mary in prayer follows upon the office she continuously fills by the side of the throne of God as Mediatrix of Divine grace; being by worthiness and by merit most acceptable to Him, and, therefore, surpassing in power all the angels and saints in Heaven. Now, this merciful office of hers, perhaps, appears in no other form of prayer so manifestly as it does in the Rosary. ...‚ÄĚ (Iucunda Semper Expectatione, n. 2)
** had several children
To say the Catholics believe in the Mary found in the Bible is totally false.
Unprofitable Servant wrote: If I may add my two cents. My research says you are not accurate brother Dave in what you state about Martial Arts. It has nothing to do with Mars I practiced taekwando until I couldn't afford it and was 2 belts shy of a black belt. The main instructor was a 6th degree black belt with 5 world championships. Religion or God was never mentioned in any of my training or discussions. We bow before and after sparring to any partner regardless of rank. We should be careful about putting Western thinking on Eastern traditions. God bless.
Just for clarification, when I stated it has nothing to do with Mars, I mean the worship of Mars. Mars was the Roman "god" of war but that makes Martial arts no more pagan than us using the names given to days of the week or months of the year. You wouldn't accuse a believer of the pagan practice of sun worship or being uninformed for stating today is Sunday.
If I may add my two cents. My research says you are not accurate brother Dave in what you state about Martial Arts. It has nothing to do with Mars I practiced taekwando until I couldn't afford it and was 2 belts shy of a black belt. The main instructor was a 6th degree black belt with 5 world championships. Religion or God was never mentioned in any of my training or discussions. We bow before and after sparring to any partner regardless of rank. We should be careful about putting Western thinking on Eastern traditions. God bless.
Adriel wrote: I'm sure you will agree with me Ups that the verses you quoted are all past tense in other words 'after' the event of accepting from his wife the illicit fruit. Paul says quote, "And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." Now WHY did Paul bring up this point at all?? And what is he saying? First he makes a strong allegation implying Eve's position at this time. This demonstrate Eve as sinner whereas demonstrates (at this time) - Adam's "innocence" Second what Paul is saying in this phrase is that Adam was not guilty of the disobedience/sin at this point in time. Genesis 3:17 states Adam's sin was, "Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife," (God's words) Adam listened to the "person *IN* sin" - His wife. Her guilt at this time is in no doubt. So who does 'God blame' (for the fruit picking) by this accusation??
God did not blame Eve for Adam's transgression. At the time of Genesis 3:17 Adam's guilt was also not in doubt. Still have no clue what point you are trying to make.
If all actions are predetermined by God then why the following admonitions
flee youthful lust make no provision for the flesh put you on the Lord Jesus Christ Walk in the Spirit and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh come out and be separate pursue holiness keep yourself from idols mortify therefore your members yield yourself unto God yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness work out your own salvation with fear and trembling cleanse yourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit
Obviously the list could go on and on, but it is definitely not a let go and let God.
God's omniscience doesn't make Him the cause of all things. Speaking in human terms (we are no comparison to God Almighty) I know if I put my vehicle in reverse it will go backwards but it doesn't happen until I put my foot on the brake of the vehicle I started and put the gear to R and release the brake. Knowing what will happen is not the cause of it happening.
We do all things through Christ who strengthens us and all we do is enabled to us by the grace of God which works in us for without Him we could do nothing. But our doctrine is found in the Word of God not the creeds of men.
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.
For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother‚Äôs womb. 14 I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Your works, And my soul knows it very well. 15 My frame was not hidden from You, When I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth; 16 Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Your book were all written The days that were ordained for me,
Thus says the Lord who made you And formed you from the womb
Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you
...the Child who has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.‚ÄĚ (are you going to say Jesus wasn't human at conception?)
For behold, when the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby (end of 2nd trimester) leaped in my womb for joy
Even in the Jim from Lincoln version the Bible clearly states the unborn are His making and are human from conception (medical science agrees they are human from concep