Abigail, you didn't answer the question. Pia says, "how so?". I'm assuming that means how was Adam's penalty placed upon all people BEFORE any of us ever sinned if Adam's sin was not imputed (transferred) to us? That was the point that you disagreed with, and this verse in Romans shows otherwise.
Wayne, I have wondered about the whole christian mystic thng. I read Tozer quite a bit and that is what they called him. I'm not sure if they use the word when refering to some christians to give them a sense of super spirituality or what, but it has made me nervous. If you have any, what are your thoughts on Tozer?
Publican, I for one, hate to see you go. I have enjoyed our discussions and your thought provoking insights (I haven't forgotten your thoughts from the discussion on where the light came from before the fourth day). I would like to see you stay, but I know that people can be cruel and that thick skin is required. So, should you choose to leave, Godspeed, and I will rejoice to meet you in Heaven some day
Abigail, death came upon all people because Adam sinned. We all received the same penalty because Adam was the representative for the human race. We are given the same punishment because Adam's sin was imputed (transferred to the account of) the whole human race. Christ's righteousness is imputed to the repentant sinner at the moment of conversion. Don't let the fact that some choose to live in sin cause you to change the theology of the Bible. The problem is not with the truth, it is that these people who are not transformed have never met Christ. II Cor. 5:17 says that anyone who comes to Christ is a new creature and that all things are new. If the person stays in the old, guess what? They had never met Christ! They didn't truly repent (turn from sin to Christ).
Pia, I would appreciate it if you would use your own name. If you like mine so much, get yours changed! You try to bring conviction on me for coming against you "without even knowing you" yet you have done the same thing! Maybe you should use "beam in my eye" for your alias! I adhere to the doctrines of grace, but do not feel the need to force them on others to prove their salvation. Read some of the posts from the past and see if that isn't what some on this site do! As a matter of fact, your attack on me in the previous post proves you love your Calvinistic version of these doctrines more than you care to admit. You don't know me either, and what I am doing for our Lord, by His grace. That's not "holier than thou", which is just your way of saying that you don't like me rebuking you, it's Bible proof. Show me where the doctrines of grace are necessary to salvation and I will apologize and bow out!
Pia, you do have a tendency to read into things, don't you I never said that we were to exist in a doctrinal vacuum. I will fight to the death for the inspiration of scripture, the deity of Christ, the Trinity, salvation by grace through faith alone, and other ESSENTIAL truths. As I look at the preaching of the book of Acts, I see NOWHERE where the doctrines of grace are given as essential to salvation. No one is denied the gospel. nor an invitation to salvation if they don't agree with them, nowhere do the early christians look to preach to only the elect. I adhere to the doctrines of grace (I am done with the Calvinism name), but you CANNOT prove from scripture that believing them is necessary for salvation! I am intimidated by no one, not even your accusations and innuendos, so get off your high horse and onto your knees so that maybe you could see that there is a lost and dying world out there that we, by the power of God's Spirit, need to reach!
GG, the Pharisees were more like the RCC:confession to a priest (nowhere in the Bible); penance (nowhere in the Bible);praying to saints and idols (nowhere in the Bible); baptism for saving grace (nowhere in the Bible); Mass for saving grace (nowhere in the Bible); obedience to magesteriums of the church (nowhere in the Bible); worshipping the Pope (nowhere in the Bible); purgatory (nowhere in the Bible); rosary beads (nowhere in the Bible); yep, sounds just like the Pharisees, placing a heavy load on people that we find NOWHERE IN THE BIBLE!
GG, God doesn't weigh people's hearts to see if they will make it into Heaven. He looks into the Lamb's book of life to see if the have been cleansed by the blood of Jesus Christ. Your works based religion will only serve to bring condemnation on your soul when the balance tips toward Hell. Your good works can NEVER outweigh your sin. Repent, turn to Jesus, confess you are a sinner deserving of God's just punishment, and call out for the mercy that can be yours through the precious shed blood of Jesus Christ!
Why do all of the questions have to lead to the same old discussion about Calv/Arm? Why do we have to battle about free will/total depravity? Why can't we focus on the actual question, and also, like I try to do in my preaching, focus on Christ? C'mon folks, it's time to put away childish things and grow into the measure of the full stature of Christ! The world needs to see it and our Savior deserves nothing less!
GG, are you sure the RCC didn't also invent the internet? They also gave us the Inquisiyion, pedophile priests, and a false religious system sending millions to Hell! Now that's something to be proud of!
GG, most Catholics need the RCC to interpret the Bible for them because, just like their godless system, they do not have the Holy Spirit. The only fool here is you, for you refuse to give up your Christ crucifying, Bible denying, Pope worshipping,works based cult for true biblical christianity. I'm not talking "fundies" or Prot's. I'm talking Jesus Christ saying, "you must be born again" and "no man comes to the Father but by Me" and "there is no other name given under Heaven by which we must be saved". Not Mary, not the RCC, not the Pope; Jesus Christ and Him ALONE. If those who hate are not in Heaven, then according to the Bible, God Himself is not there! I would reconsider the accusation if I were you! JY, you admit that theree are unscriptural parts to the Mass. The Bible says, "A little leaven, leavens the whole lump". A little false doctrine is as bad as a whole system of false doctrine. A little rat poison is just as deadly as a whole bottle. Do you get the point? By the way, you never answered my question about why you never mention Jesus as your Lord. If He were, you would obey!
JY, you keep refering to jesus as your Savior. What about Lord? You can't have one without the other. Jesus is not a smorgasbord where you pick and choose what you like while leaving the parts you don't. You want Him to save you from Hell, but you don't want to obey His commandments. Jesus said, "If you LOVE Me, you will KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS. One of those commandments is to separate from false doctrine and false religious systems. Will you obey or not?
This article makes me sick! Is it any wonder that the world sees the church as weak and compromising! Could you imagine the Apostle Paul spending his days fighting for the rights of animals who were being slaughtered in the amphitheaters? The "leaders" are notleaders, they are charlatans! If they want to be politicians, then let them go to D.C., but stop calling them preachers. Warren and Hybels should get together with Sharpton and Jackson and form a "We don't have the guts to preach the gospel, so we'll go after social issues" club, and enjoy one anothers company! We need to NEVER support any of them in any way! PREACH THE WORD! Any preachers on here, PREACH THE WORD! Christians, hold your pastors accountable to PREACH THE WORD! If they won't THROW THEM OUT! Let's get back to serving Jesus, reaching the lost, and confronting sin; in our lives, our churches, lives, and the life of our nation! Our precious Savior deserves nothing less, and we can offer nothing greater!!!
JY, the Jesus of the RCC does not have enough power through His work on the cross to save sinners. According to the RCC, they need the grace given by baptism and the Mass. The Bible says that the real Jesus finished the work Himself, and that His precious shed blood is all that is needed to bring a sinner to salvation. Your Jesus needs penance, confession, and Mary to help Him along. The biblical Jesus said, "It is finished" when He died on the cross. Your Jesus has to be sacrificed anew every day to help pay the price for sin. The bible says Jesus laid down His life ONCE to pay the TOTAL price for sin. Yes, JY, a different Jesus, a different, gospel, a different destination! By the way, JY, it is not me that is staing you are lost, it is the Word of God. Raed the book of Galatians and see what it has to say about any gospel that adds something to the finished work of Christ, and those who preach it!