Jim Lincoln posts:- ""KJV-Onlyism runs the gambit from moderately reasonable advocates (David Cloud, E.L. Bynum, John R. Rice), to the wacked-out, stone throwers ( D.A. Waite , Jack Hyles , Samuel Gipp, Walter Bebe, Texe Marrs , Peter Ruckman, ..., etc.).""
Thus the Christians and churches who use the King James Version are quote, "wacked-out" - This is a Christian term is it??
If you choose by prayer and study to reject the Westcott and Hort, Aland, Nestle based bibles the so called modern versions then you are wacked out?? According to the diagnosis of Doctor Jim.
Sadly Jim seems to be becoming desperate in his bid to turn everybody away from the Bible God Himself has been using to build His Church for centuries.
Perhaps it would be spiritually healthier for the Christian to use the KJV and avoid the problems which Jim is demonstrating.
Jim. The Roman Catholics have been publishing their own version of the Bible for centuries.
List of RCC bibles - Vulgate Douay-Rheims Bible 1582, 1609, 1610 WVSS Westminster Version of the Sacred Scriptures 1913â€“1935 SPC Spencer New Testament 1941 CCD Confraternity Bible 1941 Knox Bible 1950 KLNT Kleistâ€“Lilly New Testament 1956 RSVâ€“CE Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition 1965â€“66 JB Jerusalem Bible 1966 NAB New American Bible 1970 TLBâ€“CE The Living Bible â€“ Catholic Edition 1971 NJB New Jerusalem Bible 1985 GNTâ€“CE Good News Bible Catholic Edition5 2001 RSVâ€“2CE Revised Standard Version, Second Catholic Edition 2006 CTSâ€“NCB CTS New Catholic Bible 2007 NABRE New American Bible Revised Edition 2011/1986 (OT/NT).
Jim. The Reformed Church did not and would not use the RCC bibles, texts or interpretations.
However: FYI:- Quote: "These manuscripts represent the corrupted copies of the Bible, also known as the Alexandrian manuscripts. These manuscripts, many times, do not even agree with each other. The RCC Vaticanus and Sinaiticus manuscripts are part of this group. These are the manuscripts on which Westcott and Hort and the modern versions rely so heavily." (chick.com)
B. McCausland wrote: It is quite serious to indirectly attribute to the devil the revivals and all the missionary work God
I suspect that Jim Lincoln regrets his earlier 'rash' statement about the "first hundred years .... " etc
Even logic illustrates that this is not the way God works nor indeed the way which HE did work in subsequent times - including today. Vast numbers of Christians today are using the KJV of the Word and many road tested the modern versions and rejected them.
Modern versions rely upon the heretics Westcott and Hort whose version of the 1880's was rejected by America when it came across the pond back then.
Basing their versions today on Westcott, Hort, - AND Aland and Nestle - compounds the doubts and the errors and omissions.
Quote; "One is entitled â€˜The Problem of Anonymity and Pseudonymity in Christian Literature of the First Two Centuriesâ€™, written in 1961.2 In that booklet, Dr Aland denies the apostolic authorship of the Four Gospels, the Catholic Epistles, the Pastoral Epistles, and Hebrews. The other work is entitled The Problem of the New Testament Canon, written in 1962.3 In this work, Dr Aland expresses his doubts as to the canonicity of several NT books" (tbsbibles.org)
Jim Lincoln wrote: When it was reasonably understandable for the first 100 years or so, God used it. As it became less understandable it became more and more the tool of Satan. Until now it is one Satan's favorite tools. So, no, it's tool in Satan's arsenal
Well! Well! Well! Now we see where Jim Lincoln stands.
The "Word of God" was used by God for the first century. THEN God handed it over to Satan to be used against the believers and servants of God??????
According to John's gospel the Holy Spirit is in full charge of revealing the truth through the Word of God. John 16:13.
In Jim Lincolns "gospel" the Holy Spirit couldn't continue the task until the heretics Westcott and Hort jumped in to make everything clear. Otherwise God couldn't write a book and maintain it throughout history.
Jim's "IMAGE" of God is of a being who failed to bring light into the world by HIS Word and Doctrines.
"Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." However in Jim's "gospel" Satan takes over the Word of God and uses it as a tool to kill the church????
Jim Lincoln wrote: Well, I have read that the language of the KJV was getting outdated even as the translators put the KJV t
Jim; The reason why the translators of the King James used the words and grammar which they used is because of their devotion, dedication and honourable commitment to God. This is the very Word of God and no way would they use anything that was not perfect to translate God's Holy Word.
Modern translators do not apply such dedication and commitment to God. After all they work for publishers who serve mammon.
But ultimately ALL the glory must go to God. He put this group of devoted Christian experts together to provide HIS Holy Word, the King James Version. Halleluiah.
"They (KJV Translators) were so concerned about it that they even took over the very phraseology of the Hebrew and Greek. We find in our Bibles, all kinds of Hebrew expressions and concepts that are not natural to the English way of speaking. In fact, it can even be said that the English of the King James Version is not the English of the 17th century, nor of any century. It is an English that is unique, for it is Biblical English-an English formed by the Hebrew and Greek of the Bible. It is Biblical English because the translators were more interested in being faithful to the originals than in making their translation in the street language of the day, as do translators today.
That they sought an accurate translation is further indicated by the fact that they italicized every word that did not have a corresponding word in the original. How many modern Bible versions do that? Moreover, to insure the fact that the reader understands the meaning of certain original words, they added 4,223 marginal notes that gave the literal meaning of the original words, and 2,738 notes with alternate translations. The result is that in the King James Version we have an accurate translation that puts the others to shame." (Steven Houck)
Jim Lincoln wrote: BM, I am trying to stop the unnecessary silvicide--killing of trees. This is certainly what putting out a Bible in Elizabethan English is doing. No, Shakespeare is much easier to understand then the KJV , because the KJV was put in high falutin Church language. However when it was written , it was much more understandable than it is now.
Jim I see you still lack for the help of the Holy Spirit to discern the truth in the Bible.
Also please note that the King James Version has been serving God in His Church for centuries. If God can make it work for the folks in the 16th, 17th 18th 19th and 20th centuries then HE can make it light and truth - even for someone such as you.
Jim: How about this verse can you understand it? John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
BTW: The KJV IS *NOT* Elizabethan English. The style of translation used by the translators of the time was to accurately exegete the Bible Hebrew and Greek precisely. To achieve this they used the perfect grammar and vernacular. - Shakespeare did not!!
"Too often translation today is not done by men respected by the church who are doctrinally sound, but by men who rest more upon their academic standing. These men do not work under the watchful eye of the church; instead their translation is done under the auspices of publishing companies. Today there is an artificially produced conviction resulting from marketing techniques and imposed on the churches from without. This wholly modern consensus maintains the Bible publishing industry must now determine the texts of Scripture. The Church, as Professor van Bruggen has demonstrated (The Future of the Bible, 1978), has abdicated her role as guardian of the Bible and has turned such responsibility over to hirelings who market various, conflicting translations to the confusion and disarray of the Church." (TBS)
"The Authorised Version translators held to the doctrines of Scripture, and through them the Authorised Version, whether because of the Greek text used or the form of translation employed, upholds many of the doctrines that modern versions in numerous places miss. The Authorised Version gives the Lord Jesus His rightful place; both His Godhood and His manhood are upheld (Rom 9.5). It upholds the doctrine of inspiration which is substantially weakened in modern versions (Hos 12.4; 2Tim 3.16). It supports the Virgin Birth of Jesus. It correctly defines and translates passages which teach justification by faith alone, one of the most misinterpreted doctrines in all of the Scripture. These and many others the AV, as the basis for the faith of Christians for four hundred years, correctly and firmly upholds.
Meanwhile, Bible publishers of today are using the present-day ecumenicalism to boost their sales. Rather than working toward the purity of translation by careful selection of translators, the publishers instead work toward â€˜onenessâ€™. This â€˜onenessâ€™ takes the form of cooperation with varying groups, groups which are religious but not always Christian. It is no longer unusual to find Roman Catholics, Jews, and Unitarians listed among the translators" (TBS)
For man to make the decision that the KJV is not acceptable and thus to rewrite the Bible in a form which [he] purports to teach a clearer doctrine, is an insult to God the Holy Spirit who has been using the KJV to build the church for centuries.
The changes in modern versions are not only an update of the english vernacular but also the application of higher criticism by the likes of the heretics Westcott, Hort, Aland and Nestle.
Man has sinned yet again by assuming that he knows better than God what is 'good'? for the people.
The Roman Catholics are practicing idolatry initiated originally by the errors in the Vulgate. The JW's have got it wrong because they rewrote the Bible to reflect their version of doctrine.
So interpretation of Scripture is a powerful contributing factor in the conversion of and teaching of the servant of God. By the grace of God! Which is why God sent the Holy Spirit to bring truth and revelation into the comprehension of men. (John 16:13)
It is by the Holy Spirit that any sinner receives the Word of God - truth in a saving way. Rejecting that divine method in the pursuit of 'correcting' the Word and 'perfecting' what has been working by grace over centuries - Must be an affront to the Lord.
Jim Lincoln wrote: Dr. Dan showed why the reason of the KJVO's should make one want to use the Vulgate over all others.
Jerome's Vulgate was a version with hundreds of translation errors. The KJV translators saw this clearly and therefore corrected them from the original Greek. They saw as do the KJV users see, that the KJV is the best translation of the Word of God available today. The reason for using the KJV is that God used it for centuries to build His church - The Reformed Church. Therefore what God has used and authorised for use is what Christians today want to be obedient too. God in His infinite wisdom kept the Vulgate in Latin form which kept it away from the common people. Thus the errors and heresies were kept out of the church. Obviously your friend Dr Dan, may not be as intelligent as the average KJV user to see this.
Doug Kutilek wrote: ... I affirm that anything--ANYTHING--which unnecessarily puts an obstacle between the present-day Bible reader and a better understanding of the Word of God is wrong and evil.
You mean like heretics or papist sympathisers like Westcott and Hort?? Or Roman Catholic texts retrieved from trash heaps like Sinaiticus or worse like Vaticanus???
Yes Jim; They are wrong and evil!! So why you keep advertising them and the modern versions NIV/NASB etc that follow these RCC roots - nobody knows.
You know Jim; We KJV users have always trusted God the Holy Spirit to teach us what God's Bible doctrines are and to exegete them precisely. And that works grace-fully, praise be to God and His Son Jesus. Amen.
John D. wrote: I'm afraid to ask my next question: who decided the contents of the New Testament?
God decided the contents of the KJV which HE has published and used to build His Church for centuries. The actual differences between the older versions such as the Vulgate are well documented.
As I said before the real problem is the heretical input in the modern versions which began in the 19th century. The various Greek texts which emerged at different times actually include old texts which came from the garbage pile in some old churches. Whereas the Textus Receptus (KJV) has been accepted by the church for centuries.
The "problem" is more with the modern versions than the KJV. The Greek text Used by Modern's is suspect and contains interpretations from heretics such as Westcott and Hort of the 19th century. -----
"The battle for the Word of God is going on today as it always has. The work of the Evil One himself has ever been to cause men to doubt the Word (Gen. 3:1), to corrupt the Word (2 Cor. 2:17), and to misquote the Word (Luke 4:10,11). There are many Modern Versions on the scene today all claiming to be more accurate or more readable renderings of the Word of God. Most of these versions follow the MINORITY Greek Text even though that text exhibits a corruption throughout. The King James Version was translated from the MAJORITY Greek Text which agrees with about 95% of all available manuscripts. The MAJORITY Greek Text can be traced back to the Peshitta (Syriac Version) about 150 A.D.
Many Christian Colleges and Universities have switched over to the MINORITY Greek Text (known as Westcott and Hort or Nestle and Aland) for the classroom while still using the King James Version in public preaching. Since there are over 5,000 differences between the MAJORITY and MINORITY texts a problem immediately faces the student." (Paul L Freeman)
Jim Lincoln wrote: in the KJV the Holy Spirit is "it"
Jim Go straight back to the school which taught you English grammar and get a refund for your dollar.
Dictionary:- "it" 1. (used to represent an inanimate thing understood, previously mentioned, about to be mentioned, or present in the immediate context): 2. (used to represent a person or animal understood, previously mentioned, or about to be mentioned whose gender is unknown or disregarded):
BTW You should also get a copy of the real Word of God King James Version and learn the truth.
Quote: "The Roman Catholic Church now had two manuscripts which were used by Hort and Westcott to create the critical text which would become the underlying text for all the modern versions."
Quote: "I want to get to a quote taken from the 27th edition of the Nestle-Aland Greek text giving undeniable proof that the modern versions are Roman Catholic in origin. While there may be Protestant translators on each of the Bible Versions, they are ancillary to the supervision which is under the Vatican. Am I making this up? The following quote can be found and verified on page 45 of the 27th edition of the Nestle-Aland Greek Text." (Dr K. Matto) http://www.scionofzion.com/rcv.htm
Jim Lincoln wrote: Are the KJVOnlyers Christian? Well, at the very least, they are a schismatic, aberrational group.
Don't forget Jim, God has been KJV Only for centuries.
And don't forget Jim, God hates the heretics who try to offend Him by changing the Bible to suit themselves.
The heretics Westcott, Hort, Nestle and Aland AND their followers are sinning against God by defacing His Holy Bible. As God has recorded of these heretics - "And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." Rev 22:19 KJV.
pennnelope wrote: you can't fool me TS! Erasmus was a Roman Catholic Priest. Our Greek scholars are preserving the Word of God for the world and for the generations to come, despite your romanist efforts and authoritarianism!
I take it from that you did not study Greek?
As for Erasmus. GOD used him in a powerful way to write the Word of God and reveal the truth to the Reformed (True) Church. When God uses someone in this way and strong Christians such as puritans confirm his works then the real church perceives God's hand in the process and praises God.
How you can suggest I am quote "romanist" is quite ridiculous. I support the Bible KJV which God has used to build His church for centuries. As a Bible believing Christian I can perceive by His grace that the Reformation and the Protestant movement AWAY from the Roman Catholic church was ordained by God. I am a part of that Protestant and Reformed Church and can plainly see the errors, idolatry and heresies of the RCC.
pennned wrote: all opinions spoken by those who have never learned Greek, have never looked at original copies and thus have no authority to speak on what the original languages say.
I studied my Greek at Theological College, what about you?
As for the "original copies" of Scripture - I trust in God to deliver the Word of God to HIS servants accurately to us today as HE did in the old times when HE caused HIS servants of old to write the Bible.
I also believe God when HE writes :- 2Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." # AND That HE will continue this inspiration of HIS servants, indwelt by the Holy Spirit, throughout history.
Thus by the grace of God we have the Word of God today.
As for versions - God has used the KJB for centuries to build HIS church; That practical reality can be trusted in the hands and the grace of God.
Whereas the modern versions are partly based on the works of heretics. These modern versions also use the Vaticanus/Sinaiticus Roman Catholic texts = NOT a safe place to find the truth.