Frank wrote: I truly donât understand the semantics of this argument, but I am trying. God calls (elected) each of His children from before the foundation of the world. Those He calls will in every instance come to Him; those who werenât called âcanâtâ come.
If you look closely at the posts of John UK and Michael you will observe that they keep dropping into the free will ideology of the Arminians.
EG; By Michael:- "Question: Are the elect .... those who are by God predestinated .... are they winnable to faith in the Lord Jesus Christ? And does God will to use us in the winning?"
Can you spot the mistake Frank? Michael appears to suggest that God elects people who don't have faith??? until something happens on earth.
Michael and John then post that human effort - soul winners??? - then apply their debating skills to convince the "elect?" unto salvation. Where does God, Christ and the Holy Spirit come into their proposed scheme?
John UK suggests quote; "see just how much work goes into saving souls" - Who needs God in this kind of philosophy? "Hard working" mortals can do the job just as well apparently???
"Salvation by works" once only a Roman heresy now serves the Baptist churches???
John UK wrote: I tell you what, it would better for you to get some books on church history, including the Acts of the Apostles, and see just how much work goes into saving souls. Goosebump theology never did work.
Salvation by works is Roman Catholic fiction John. Are you at last confirming to all and sundry that you are a committed Arminian? Have you booked your pew beside John Yurich yet?
John UK wrote: How do you recognise a person with no wisdom?
John. I bet you cannot guess who this statement is about?
WCF 12/1. All those that are justified God vouchsafeth, in and for his only Son Jesus Christ, to make partakers of the grace of adoption;a by which they are taken into the number, and enjoy the liberties and privileges of the children of God;b have his name put upon them;c receive the Spirit of adoption;d have access to the throne of grace with boldness;e are enabled to cry, Abba, Father;f are pitied,g protected,h provided for,i and chastened by him as by a father;k yet never cast off,l but sealed to the day of redemption,m and inherit the promises,n as heirs of everlasting salvation.o a. Gal 4:4-5; Eph 1:5. â˘ b. John 1:12; Rom 8:17. â˘ c. Jer 14:9; 2 Cor 6:18; Rev 3:12. â˘ d. Rom 8:15. â˘ e. Rom 5:2; Eph 3:12. â˘ f. Gal 4:6. â˘ g. Psa 103:13. â˘ h. Prov 14:26. â˘ i. Mat 6:30, 32; 1 Pet 5:7. â˘ k. Heb 12:6. â˘ l. Lam 3:31. â˘ m. Eph 4:30. â˘ n. Heb 6:12. â˘ o. Heb 1:14; 1 Pet 1:3-4.
In case you didn't know God is the same today, yesterday and forever. He is immutable. AND He is perfect.
Thus what God did in Canaan He can repeat today also if it is part of His plan and purpose. Don't dismiss the OT as if it was just past history. God is never past history.
Num 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
"Paul holds this as a fixed principle, that since adoption is gratuitous and based on God alone and not on men, it stands firm and inviolable, howsoever great the unfaithfulness of men may be, which may tend to abolish it." (John Calvin)(Rom 11)
SteveR wrote: Man is a wicked creature, thats for sure. However that doesnt justify the cycle of murders in the israeli-Palestinian conflict. Bibi will spend eternity with Black September...no tears, they deserve each other Romans 12:17 Recompense to no man evil for evil.
Are you also angry at the Lord for what He did to empower Israel and take over Canaan, slaughtering man, woman, child and animals?
Unprofitable Servant wrote: Jesus said all that the Father gives will COME not that they will pacifically do nothing and find themselves somehow magically transformed from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of light. They must act, you cannot show me a Scripture where someone was saved apart from action on their part. Also what will it be, stick to the Scriptures or what saith the confession?
Are we born again after we repent and believe or are we born again before we repent and believe??
Lewdale wrote: "Total" Depravity is not about a quantity. It is about a condition. Man holds back from "Total" that much as sin prevails him to believe is not depraved. The sinner who declares himself "Partially Depraved" is fooled by sin itself and remains under the dominion of sin. Partial Depravity replaces God with man to gain salvation by works. "Therefore all men are conceived in sin, and by nature children of wrath, incapable of saving good, prone to evil, dead in sin, and in bondage thereto, and without the regenerating grace of the Holy Spirit, they are neither able nor willing to return to God, to reform the depravity of their nature, nor to dispose themselves to reformation" (Dordt)
penny wrote: every new soul saved is the building of the Kingdom. Heaven is being filled generation after generation of those who have passed on and remained in the faith, those who have passed away before us. It is God's work through the Holy Spirit but He has called His elect to be His Ambassadors. How will they hear if no one preaches to them? Behold the fields are ripe. have you not heard? unless a man be born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God? when a man is born again, he will see the Kingdom of God. blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. have you not heard of the Kingdom of God? "This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:11,12
It is the Lord who builds his kingdom, not us, and that was the point I was making.
Mike wrote: I would suggest that he appeared to the disciples the same day as he resurrected that prophecy might be fulfilled. Matthew 12:39,40 "But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." If the Lord did not appear when he did, but some other day, how would the sign of the prophet have been given? As you say, the Lord does nothing without significance.
If the Lord was buried on Friday, how was he in the grave 3 days and nights with the resurrection being on the first day of the week?
John UK wrote: But it must be understood that in the text we look at, Paul is referring to the church meeting - not Sunday School, not a ladies meeting, nor website forum, but the gathering of saints for worship.
Does this mean that a woman can teach and usurp authority over the man outside of the church?