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Please refer to my 12:14 post, US, concerning the 'thousand' issue. Thank you for your response. I am now examining my mind on this. I believe part of my problem is that I am confusing literal with physically observable, and allegorical with spiritual. I could not see a literal dragon and chain, etc. Thank you for your prayers, Lurker. Just a follow up scan to brain surgery. I believe I'm alright. Will know soon. I am an amill who believes that the events in the OT, purportedly describing the atmosphere in the proposed millennium, are the latter days describing the results of being in Christ. Isaiah 2, 11, 65 and so forth. Can't thank you enough for sticking with me on this. I still have a lot of work to do in this arena. I feel like I'm trying to jump out of the water, while I'm treading it. I pray that I am communicating this well enough.
I am not sure what the error on my part is, in specific. I do believe that my principles were correct, but my application may have not been. I'm still sliding passed my own understanding, or misunderstanding, like two self-contained planes, never making contact. It almost itches. Have a lot of work to do (that, and a CAT scan this morning). For the motivation to this, I am indebted to you, Christopher 000, and you, Lurker. Not being able to understand your post to me, Lurker, I was up all night, reading it time and again, until... Like I said; lots of work to do.
I'm not sure what you mean, Frank. Your 11:07 post was addressed at 7:18. To answer my post at 8:13, you went off to sheep and doors, after I demonstrated that the 'rules of comparison' did not apply. I didn't understand the relevance. Why did you go there? Here is a brief scenario. Ever since the fall, the world has been in the grasp of the wicked. He is the god of this age. The prince of the power of the air. In order to our salvation, the Lord Christ made a supernatural 'intrusion' into our world, that never would have happened in the natural course of history. Satan was overcome, bound, put on hold, if you will, and could do nothing to thwart the plan of God in this regard. I have no doubt but that he thought he was upsetting God's plan by manipulating the authorities to kill the Son of God, not realizing that this was the plan. He was completely bound by the Lord, to be utterly impotent to do anything but comply with the Lord's design, despite the fact that it appeared, at that time, to believer and unbeliever alike, that Satan had triumphed. Mission accomplished by our Lord, He ascended into heaven, Satan is 'released' to go on about his intended work of the destruction of the church. His time is 'short' it is said. 2000 years in the spiritual realm is nothing. OK?
Nowhere in your 12/31/12 do you address this passage, US. And I am truly sorry that you went through all that trouble, because I asked that when you find the many places where the term is used, and you believe it is not literal; tell me why. And as far as the verses you posted; I never even hinted that I had a problem with: 2.000 pieces of silver; 7,300 men; 1,400 chariots; 1,000 cubits eastward, or any such thing. Ps. 50:10, 68:17, 91:7, 105:8. These are the usages I was asking you to examine, as well as others like them. I am not a little astounded that you do not know of this interpretation of the 144,000. Virtually everyone I have heard expound this has this in mind. 12 tribes of Israel x 12 apostles x 1000 (generally known as a number of completion). The JW's believe that is all that is going to be in heaven.
I'm not sure I comprehend your post, Lurker. Christians slain and their souls are with Christ. 'Absent from the body, present with the Lord'. First resurrection. Dead live again. In a spiritual realm. I do not understand the quandary.
I do not understand why this must be literal, when nothing else in this entire scenario is. When the term thousand is used in scripture, it virtually never means a thousand, literally. As a matter of, I am hard pressed to find anywhere that it does. The term itself is indefinite. There are even places where a specific number of thousand is figurative. Ps. 68: 91:7 etc. Why everyone insists that of all places where thousand is used, this must be the only place it is literal, I cannot comprehend. And the 144,000 is almost universally believed to represent the entire number of the elect in all ages (Jehovah's Witnesses excepted). There is no reason to take this thousand literally. Search the scriptures, and when you find those places where the term thousand is used, and you believe it is not literal; tell me why.
I'm not even going to use the word, 'pope'. I've already proved that he has no right to exist. I'm not sure if I understand this. Is this guy referring to leaders who strip the people of their wealth, and arrogate it to themselves; or those who through hard work and a knowledge of what to do with their money, far outdistance their fellows?
Forcing the necessity of 'like' or 'as', on this scripture to mean something, is an imposition on the Word of God, and this 'rule' is contradicted hundreds of times in the bible. Please don't make me enumerate them. This entire scenario is spiritual: dead Christians in heaven; Angel binding dragon, where there is no reference to time, only activity. Again, this is using the scripture to define scripture. Not my reasoning, not current events, nothing but God's word. My hermeneutic is using scripture to interpret scripture. No one has refuted my explanation of the term 'no more', the binding of Satan, or anything else. Again, the 'rule' set up for the interpretation of 'thousand', is not followed in scripture. When my post is waved away, not by bringing me to bar of scripture, but merely labeling it as obfuscation, wrong, or presupposition; I took that as mocking. Forgive me if that was not the intention. I am full of alacrity toward our continued communications. As far as me being RC; you can't be serious. Long ago, I was the one who completely destroyed even the concept of the existence of a pope. But again, no one wanted to hear it. I even pursued everyone to answer the challenge. I got nothing. On the side; do we believe that the 144,000 is 144,000?
All the derogation in the world does not refute what I have said. So far, I have seen no rebuttal. No presuppositions. The only analogy I have used is to explain my reasoning. I have checked these posts and found none of them using the Word of God, with the exception of those that support what I am saying. All others have merely declared me wrong, while providing no scriptural evidence to contradict me. As I said years ago, 'Some may receive laughter for answers and mocking for reasons; but I am not among them.' I need something from the Word of God. What have I said that is not in accord with, not the end time scenario in vogue, but the bible?
I see everyone is still trying to read according to literal, earthly, interpretation. What I would recommend is a reading of 1Corinthians 2;9-16.
The words 'no more' should not be disturbing to anyone; particularly in the light of the qualifier, 'until'. Where would be the mischief to say, 'I will put you in prison that you may be able to do thus and such no more, until you are freed'? Very good, jpw. There is no thousand year reign of peace on earth. One of the problems I see everyone having is attached to the idea that whatever happens that we believe is evil, must mean that Satan is not bound. Remember that Jesus coming into the world is a completely ahistorical event. This never would happen as a course of natural events. There was something to accomplish. During that time, in order to that end, Satan is bound to do what God wills, whether the devil will, or no.
The kings of the earth and their armies are now gathering to fight against Christ. The heavenly city (us) is now being compassed about across the earth. We talk about this continually. The 'fire that comes down from heaven and consumes them', is the return of the Lord, 'in power and great glory' and 'in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God'. Our 'rapture' and the destruction of the wicked
Whew! That was scary. Had to have my son come to the rescue. Remember, the binding of Satan in the image is representative. We all know that the great work of our Lord will not be put off, nay, not even altered. Hence, the Jewish rulers, who did not want to murder Jesus at the Passover, had no power to prevent it. We needed Satan to subject our Lord to His trials to fulfill prophecy. But he could not hinder the accomplishment of our salvation. He was absolutely powerless. In our view, Satan had free reign to move men to crucify the Lord; not knowing that he was bound by God to do His will in the accomplishment of God's design. Had he known that he was doing God's will in order to our salvation, do you think he would have done it? 'Released' immediately after the fulfillment of such, he has been deceiving the nations ever since.
For some reason, I've been shut out. I'm on my iPhone. I want to answer all questions, but I don't know if I'm getting through. To answer Rufus, how about ONE thousand. And John, anywhere Satan is spoken of as being made impotent, cast out, or his work being destroyed, is him being bound. All heading toward or at the cross. Ah, dear brothers; this is so important, but it is too difficult on my phone. I must somehow regain access.
I personally believe that the administration is not smart enough to have any grand design behind all of this. Though they think they're on top of all of it, we know that they are being led by the nose. Nevertheless; once the law of the land supplants the Word of God... we are seeing first hand that 'the elements of reason have no power to secure their just application'.
No, no, no. The problem we have here is that no one is using God's word to interpret God's word. A thousand does not mean a thousand. It virtually never does. Particularly when it comes to time. But in other uses as well. God owns the cattle on a thousand hills. Really. Is that all? A day with the Lord is as a thousand years. So God ages? The list of the uses of this number to describe: a. An indefinitely large number b. Forever or eternity c. Until something is perfected or fulfilled goes on and on. Even the dictionary defines it as an indefinitely large number. We use it even in common language the same way. Look these up. Only the Lord can bind Satan, cast him out, destroy him who had the power of death. He was bound by Jesus while He was here and at the cross. How long thereafter was it before Satan began to deceive the nations again? Almost immediately. Let the scripture interpret scripture; not us from outside sources and ideas.
Long ago, I believed this nonsense, along with everyone else... until I read the bible and not Hal Lindsey, C Ryrie, and the rest. The thousand years in the Revelation has about as much to do with a reign of Christ on earth, as the statement Jesus made to Peter has to do with the papacy. There is no relation. It is very straightforward. No complications. The definitions of these statements concerning the rapture, the millennium, etc., are given throughout scripture many times. They have nothing to do with what we have made them. When you finally see what they do mean, it is amazing that we could ever have come up with this. and a blessing to understand. I tried to explain this years ago, but no one wanted to hear it.
Now I've only been reading the bible for a little over thirty years; but I have yet to find one word in all of the scriptures that even hints at what everyone calls the millennium. Personally, I do not even give that concept enough credence to say that it doesn't exist. Someone want to help me out?
Anyway, that was not the point of this article. It would seem In Chicago, this is called population control.
Stay your assault, John Yurich. Perhaps that was the spelling intended. There is no impetus, much less mandate, for the celebration of the birth of Jesus. Many Protestant churches have no Xmas eve services. What does that mean? Perhaps xRC 'celebrates' the resurrection with the Lord's supper. I perceive no assertion of continued non-attendance, merely a relief that not attending these 'mandated holy days', is not adjudged a mortal sin. Praise God for a converted one, and instruct with love and meekness.