If you see a brother taken in a fault go to him restore him in the spirit of meekness lest you enter into temptation also Get the beam out of your eye before you try to help someone else don't throw a stone unless you are without sin Self righteousness is as bad as adultdy Sin. Is sin
Their is I war going on in the spirit between satans kingdom and the church . Why would you allow people who are not born again believers to bring their false god( who is a demon) into the Santuary of a holy God who died to establish HIS KINGDOM. The preaching of the cross is foolishness TO THOSE WHO PERISH BUT TO US WHO BELIEVE IT IS THE POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION if people continue to preach this watered down Christianity without preaching JESUS BLOOD the Muslims will never get saved . But don't allow satin in the temple MARK13:14 abomination of desolation standing in the temple declaring himself GOD WAKE UP PEOPLE
The Lone Wolf wrote: Romans 10:10 tells us that belief comes from the heart, not in the head. One can only come to a heart belief when the heart is changed. The natural heart is deceitful and desperately wicked. Something has to happen to that heart to turn it around. God literally has to break it, plow it up, till it and prepare it to receive the seed, which is the word of God. That is what JD and his group reject, the inner working of God's power to change the heart of the sinner to bring him to repentance and faith in the gospel. When God changes the condition of the heart, the sinner will see his sins in a new light and hate the sin. He will see his utter depravity and see he has no ability to save himself and will see that Christ was his only subsitute and then saving faith comes in to play. That is the difference in mental assent and heart belief.
Amen Wolf - the parable of the Sower should be known as the parable of the hearts. It doesn't matter how well we sow, if the soil of the heart is not prepared there will be no fruit. Some plant, some water but all increase is in God's hands, not ours.
Michael Hranek wrote: The Lone Wolf Why LF you had better be careful quoting verses where Jesus speaks of repentance and not perishing or you might be accused of talking like a Baptist or even a Dispy. And if you keep on heading in this direction you might end up telling people about Jesus Christ That He really is God our Creator and that they were created by Him and for Him That He is GOOD, that He knows them by name and cares about them That He is worthy to be loved and believed in and served and obeyed and trusted That He is Holy that His very being commands absolute adoration reverence and worship That they and we have frightfully sinned against Him and are sinners by nature and by choice and cannot save ourselves That He alone can save them and make them different That He is willing to save them no matter who they are or how much they have sinned or how terrible it was (I know only not the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost) and that He is willing to save them NOW Telling them, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved!
I know the Wolf believes this. Even John Calvin believed and preached this. This does not negate man's inability and God's Sovereignty. God's command for all to repent does not imply human ability.
As soon as you start to overwhelm them with Scripture they retaliate by slagging off at John Calvin. The man was almost too busy persecuting to do any reforming.
As for JD's comment about Romans 10:10, has he not read what condition the heart of man is before regeneration? With the heart man believes, but the heart is desperately wicked, it is a heart of stone, it is uncircumcised.
Why do I bother - it is like trying to bring opposing planets into allignment. They might both profess to be planets, but they are on irreconcilable courses.
John Calvin must have been some person. Copious writings (witn quill and ink) preaching 10 times a week, teaching, catechising, pastoring and yet a notorious persecutor.
You guys need to do some serious Church History Study.
Michael Hranek wrote: "Philosopher" What a truly horrific view of the sovereignity of God some preach. To some God has so predestined and foreordained the lives of men that this "god" has willed that some are to be born only that He can hate them and damn them to hell.
What does philosophy have to do with it? I quote you Scripture and you call me a philopher?
My statement stands; either God is Almighty and Sovereign over all creation or He is not. Either God has determined the end from the beginning or He has not.
If God had left men to their own devices we all would be in hell. Left to our own sinful self to make our own sinful choices none of us would be saved.
Redemption - is to redeem what was yours to begin with.
Regeneration - is to bring back to life.
Adoption - is to choose whom you want to take as your own.
Justification - is to declare someone as righteous when they are not.
Grace - is to grant good to those who only deserve bad.
These are all God's choices. You make them man's choices and they all lose their meaning.
"Our God is in heaven; HE DOES WHATEVER HE PLEASES", not what man pleases.
Philosophy indeed; you have yet to answer the texts given to you these last months.
JD wrote: I want to be kind here minnow but you cannot fake wisdom and understanding. That means your attempt at exposition in your last post was, er.. I don't want to use the term silly, so I will just say it was uh ...revealing. It does however boggle my mind that language makes no more sense to you and your tribe than it does. Not that I think it will help but the Israel who is blinded, while a remnant of Israel is elected along with gentiles, is said to later be saved when the fullness of the gentiles be come in. This is what proves God has not cast away his people whom he forknew, which are Israelites. Hint. Go find out what is the meaning of the fullness of the gentiles and learn to comprehend the English language and come on back and lets talk some.
You see Israel and the Church as two distinct and seperate bodies despite clear Biblical evidence to the contrary and you accuse others of faking wisdom and understanding?
Go read "House Divided: The Break-up of Dispensational Theology" by Dr's Gentry and Bahnsen and come back and lets talk some.
dcp wrote: I would question whether God's Law is Biblically taught at all anymore.
In the church where I grew up the law was recited every morning service. The Heidelberg Catechism is divided in 52 Lord's Days, one for each Sunday, and they were expounded every afternoon service. So we heard the 10 commandments expounded at least once every year.
These days we barely hear the Word of God expounded, let alone the law. Church has become a religious social club, sermons are now "Bible talks" and worship is whatever attracts the people and makes them feel good.
The first main ordinary means of grace - the preaching of the Word - has been more and more neglected. There is a famine of the Word of God in the church of the Western world, but the majority of church goers wouldn't know what a sermon was, because they have never heard one.
And we wonder why Christianity is on the wane. Is it not time to repent and return to the Old Paths?
Michael Hranek wrote: Preacher What I am seeing is that some confuse God's sovereignity as if for a lost a man under the preaching of the word of God and the conviction of the Holy Spirit who believes God and calls upon His name to be saved from his sins is out of the will of God. As to praying the will of God have you forgotten Jesus told His disciples to pray, 'Thy kingdom come, They will be done on earth as it is in heaven' and since in other passages we are told God desires all men to be saved and for none to perish but for all to come to repentance, etc. we would be disobedient and unbelieving if such praying was not part of our lives as children of God. btw There is joy in the presence of the angels in heaven over one sinner who REPENTS
So you see the Almighty as having to be satisfied with less than He originally desired? He truly wants all men to be saved but this is not possible because not all are willing to come? Either He decrees and ordains all things, including the salvation of men (Rom 9:16) or He does not. So what was God's eternal purpose, the salvation of all men, or some men?
Theology begins with your understanding of God. Right now, your's is faulty, because your theology begins with man.
Michael Hranek wrote: btw I learned later that for 2 years people in New York State and in Tennessee were praying essentially that God would make Himself real to me, that He would have witnesses in my path who would tell me of His Son Jesus Christ and that He would communicate to me to call upon His name to be saved. God so mercifully and graciously brought about His wonderful answer to their praying, in which I have to think He Himself gave them the desire to pray for this (at that time) Christian hating wretch they had never met. I have to think a false view of God's sovereignity and predestination is poisonous to prayer.
Do you not see it my brother? If God cannot save unless man wills it, praying to Him is useless because His hands are tied. We can pray with confidence because God said, "If you pray anything in My name, I will do it." That "in My name" relates to God's will. Prayer sets the Word of God in motion. But how can I pray for conversions if these are not in God's hands but in ours? Do you not see it? If it is not all of God, 100% from woe to go, then praying is a waste of time. But we pray with confidence because we KNOW that God is Almighty; we KNOW He is Sovereign in all things. Without that there is no hope!
JD wrote: I have understanding of the kingdom and will share my knowledge if you will allow it. I am not your enemy unless you reject the saviour and attempt to establish Satan's counterfeit kingdom, which you have been doing so far.
You only have understanding of your particular eschatological view, which many of us reject as unscriptural. So your 'sharing of knowledge' is nothing less than setting yourself up as someone who is more enlightened than the rest of us, just because you follow Scofield and Ryrie.
Like most of your kind, you see anyone who does not agree with you as "an enemy, trying to establish Satan's counterfeit kingdom."
I have many who I allow to teach me, from different walks and denominations, but people like you I avoid like the proverbial plague. You need to be taught, JD, you have no right to teach, none whatsoever!
JD wrote: _ 1) you cannot reject something you have no opportunity to receive. This makes your theology inconsistent. _ If men were being born again before the Spirit fot 4000 years, don't you think they would have known it?
Firstly - As I stated, man is responsible, though unable and unwilling. Therefore unless regenerated first he will always reject Christ making the good news bad news for him. So I am being consistent despite your contention.
Secondly, you admit Nicodemus should have known. WHY should he have known? Jesus answers that question; Nicodemus was the teacher of Israel. He knew the OT in which all the prophets foretold Christ's suffering. He knew all the OT which spoke clearly about man's inability and God's sovereign grace. He know all the OT which speaks about regeneration, justification and sanctification.
You still think that OT saints were saved in a different way than NT saints. You are patently and totally wrong, my friend. There has always and only been one way of salvation, one way back to God, and that is through faith in the Saviour. Man is as unable to produce that faith as he is to regenerate himself, or justify himself, or sanctify himself.
"We shall be saved in the same manner as they" Acts 15:11.
JD wrote: Nathan spoke: It is clearly obvious Preacher thinks it is good news since he has heard the call of God unto the righteousness Christ death and resurrection. _ How about letting preacher say it then? _
_ _ Preacher opined JD quotes Ezekiel regarding God's revealed desire for all to repent. ____ Where?
My apologies JD, it was not you, it was Michael H. in the post below. My mistake! Yes, the Gospel is good news and good news is good news. Outside of this there is no good news. But once this has been rejected, this gospel of good news is bad news, for it is two sided. He who believes in Him is not condemned (good news); but he who does not believe is condemned already (seriously bad news).
Going back into that passage of John 3, does Jesus not clearly say that unless one is born again, (regenerated, raised from the dead, born from above, born of God) he cannot see the kingdom of God?
Once again, it comes back to that old question; what is man's condition before he is born again? Is he able to see Christ? Does he want to go to Christ? Is being born not something over which one has no control? Is natural man able to make himself see and believe and repent? For this would determine who is the determinent - God, or man.
It has been remarked before - ALL discussions on theology end up on the topic of election. This is supposed to be about eschatology, something many Christians consider to be a non-essential.
It has also been remarked before that the Bible teaches very clearly both the Sovereignty of God and the responsibility of man. Eg, "All that the Father gives Me (Sovereignty) will come to Me (response). The call of the gospel, what we term the outward call, is a universal call. Hence the texts which speak about "all, the world, whosoever" etc. Yet the call of the Spirit, what we term the inward call, is like the effects of the wind and is not to everyone, hence the many texts regarding particular election and atonement.
JD quotes Ezekiel regarding God's revealed desire for all to repent. I could respond with Isaiah 6:9,10 to show God's active reprobation.
There MUST be both responsibility and Sovereignty. Man is responsible, but he is not able. His will is free but, as Paul said, he is not able to perform that which is good. You are responsible to be holy, to be righteous, to be law-abiding. Are you able? NO! Are you responsible? YES! Where lies the difference? It is GOD who justifies. It is GOD who shows mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.