1517 claims to be a baptist, yet thinks that people should be taught 'church teaching' instead of encouraged to read and study the bible for themselves - Himself handling the word of God ever so lightly. A while back he launched a completely unwarranted assault on Frank and gave a grudging apology. Reckons that it is right for magistrates to kill heretics! Accepts that Gen 17 teaches a covenant of grace. Applauds Presbys in their verse launching and Scripture twisting. He's been caught lying and making false accusations and remains adamantly unrepentant. Wants to pick a fight at every opportunity, refuses to answer specific allegations, and snake like maintains an air of holier than thou throughout.
Then he expresses surprise that I treat him with disdain!
I don't know about you folk, but I find it very difficult to handle someone who don't have truth in the inward parts. Sure, I may be rude at times and call a shovel a shovel, but I put a premium on God's truth and try to handle God's word with gravity. He claims my interpretations are incorrect. Yet, never once made good this accusation.
Anyways, I'm done on this forum.
God's richest blessings to all the good brothers and sisters here. Until we meet in the next world.
1517 wrote: Observer, Let me get this straight, you are wrapped around the axle over RK's comment to Delores and his being a misogynist, but CONTINUALLY MOCK me for humbly asking my helper MY WIFE for her advice and SUBMITTING to the truth despite my pride. Yet I am STILL a slithering snake, brawler, liar, FALSE ACCUSER, and have not the scripture in me? Really? You who call people WIFE BEATER out of one side of your mouth then mock a man who follows the very verses you are defending with the other side of your mouth. You are the classic Emperor without clothes...the only person who thinks he is clothed is you.
Even your reasoning is perverted. I was not mocking what happened with your wife. I was pointing out that that was the only time you did something right! Maybe you should seek the advice of your better half more often!
This is a pointless conversation, so you just carry on brawling. I'm done.
1517 wrote: Thanks for proving my point Observer. Blah blah, I'm holier than thou trash...
You really are an unthinking self righteous little brawler, ain't ya?
Why don't ya start by answering why you wrote:
""Have you ever considered that, quite possibly, we 21st century Westerners might be looking through our culturally tented lenses as it relates to women?"
If you weren't defending RK's interpretation and stance to Dolores, then why that comment?
RK is an unthinking scripture twisting Presby, and you defended his scripture twisting and implicitly his attack on Dolores.
So, let's get down to brass tacks and put your self righteous anger under the microscope. You refused to say sorry to Clarity 2, and no doubt a slithery snake like you will want to squirm outta this situation as well.
Ya want to brawl? Let's see you make some honest replies instead of your constant sanctimonious belly aching.
1517 wrote: Observer, I never defended RK's statement, my focus was on th he response to his comments, especially by you. It is one thing to point out someone's misapplication of a verse, it is quite another matter to imply the same person is a wife beater. Plus, calling someone barbaric, puritanical, and the like for merely pointing out those verses, even if it was misapplied, closely resembles the world's attitude and knee jerk response than a Christian response. I do not refute or twist scripture, I was refuting your double standard, loving Delores on one hand and inappropriately insulting RK on the other.
Unprofitable Servant wrote: The passage that says wives submit to your husbands begins submit one to another. When we see our beloved Husband of the church, what is His admonition and example. He said the Son of Man came to minister and give. He gave us an example of serving. The Bible reminds us that the husband is concerned with how he may PLEASE his wife. We, as husbands, are given the privilege to love and serve our spouse so as to honor our Lord. Our concerns are for her spiritual, physical, and mental well being. How else do we dwell with them according to knowledge? Our love is to be unconditional not based upon her response but upon our responsibility. ...Does not the love of Christ constrain us? Do we not offering willing, loving service to Him because He first loved us? We men need to concern ourselves with our duties to the Lord and how to love and serve our spouse in a way that brings honor and glory to Him who alone is worthy. I know I too often fall short in my duties, but God is gracious and thankfully, so is my wife. God bless.
My dear brother in the Lord, very eloquently put and a hearty amen to all that you said!
God's richest blessings on you, your spouse and family.
Frank wrote: I think the fact that Paul noted the woman was deceived sort of implies women are prone to deception. And it matches the many scriptures that refer to the roles of women. See my meditation for more. Yes, men are guilty of what you noted. But, that is a different subject that we can discuss if you like?
Frank wrote: The long version is on the way. Let me know if I can clarify something. Ladybug, I'm glad you don't use things that are implied in scripture. I rest my case. Yes, T2W.
Thank you bro. Just received. It's pretty long, so it may take me a few days to come back to you.
A few quick thoughts:
1 Timothy 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
This is plainly a statement of fact, but do you think that this indicates proneness? If so, care to elaborate how, when both Adam and Eve were created alike?
Eve's act may have led to a prohibition to teach and usurp authority, but man's sin led to universal death and a curse upon the earth.
If there is a failure on the part of women to be subject to their men folk (which ain't the case in my connections), then should we not equally look to see if the men folk love their respective wives like Christ loved the church? If feminism has invaded the church, hasn't a similar thing happened, and perhaps for a longer period, with men having the wrong view of their roles in the family, lording it over the women and children?
Do men know what this means?: 1 Peter 3:7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according t
1517 wrote: Observer, You win, I'll just deny what God did by granting me repentance unto life and wait till my eternal damnation, as you wish. By the way what is the foundation of your judgment of me to that damnation? Prove it IN SCRIPTURE. He who is without sin....unless you are sinless, put down the rocks Clarity, Clarity 2, and Observer.
As you still can't bring yourself to acknowledge wrongs and make amends, it don't worry me what you do.
BUT, as I've said before, you twist God's word, as is generally the wont with those in the reformed camp and I'll be gunning for you. So prepared to be challenged.
You wrote "My point was they are prone to deception ...."
1517 wrote: ....I am setting aside every weight that easily beset me so that I can run the race with endurance that is set before me....
What? By lying, falsely accusing, brawling, never apologizing when you're found out, undermining God's word by your 'church teaching' etc.?
Anyone can write fine words, and those who grow up or spend any time in Presby churches sure learn the language of Zion quick enough, but are slow to show the fruit. Repentance ain't easy, like we see in your in interaction with Clarity 2.
When unregenerates are treated like they were Christian and party to some fictitious covenant, we'd expect them to grow up proud religious Pharisees, knowing all the right words to pass muster with the unwary.
1517 wrote: Observer, Why haven't apologized to, well, anyone for calling them stupid, devils, liars, wife beaters, false accusers, on and on. You continue to create factions, us verses them, contemporary Western believers against those bad old presbys, reformers, and puritans. You profess love, but for those of your flavor or agree with you, skirting objections by attacking the man, while assuming biblical superiority. You falsely accuse, continuously, those who read sermons or writings from Christian men as ONLY trusting in their works. What a sham that is, especially when you just quoted Ephesians about submitting to one another in the fear if God. So, the logic is we are to submit to your caustic judgments of people over and against men who were your ACTUAL biblical superior. Amazing.
Ive already given you my considered opinion of you and as I've said I don't think that a lying, false accusing, bible minimizing brawler is any brother of mine.
Ladybug wrote: It's telling Delores received no apology
Did you seriously expect one?
Ephesians 5:21 submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
1 Peter 5:5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.
I don't see the Presbys here being subject to you Ladybug, or me or Lurker or John UK. Wonder why that is? Perhaps they're views are culture bound, eh, and they need to get back to the Bible? What d'ya think?
Bro, are you expecting serious interaction on the Bible? You know you'll get 'church teaching' whatever that may happen to be.
created male species wrote: Husbands only? blah blah..
You're too stupid for words!
Look at the verses that you quoted again. They both speak of husbands, not any 'ol man.
I assume you are a woman. If I am right in this, if I asked you to stop posting on here, would you obey?
1517 wrote: John, Paul certainly speaks to the congregational gathering for worship, but we cannot compartmentalize the Christian life neither.,I believe the cultural sway has influenced the church in that way. Women cannot disavow their role once the chapel doors swing open, nor should men do likewise.
We'd rather have biblical proof, not your opinion, as much as you may value this.
created male species wrote: Don't forget to include the God appointed "weaker vessel" into your equation. 1Peter 3:7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the **weaker vessel,** and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered. ps This has nothing to do with muscle power. And Don't forget whom God gives the providential authority to "rule" whom. Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and **he shall rule over thee.**
1517 wrote: Observer, By you claiming I am this, that, and the other reveals your "love" for the brethren.
From your postings to date, I see nothing brotherly in you. You are here as a 'reformed' troll to spew 'reformed' hate under the guise of 'church teaching'!
1517 wrote: You clearly are insecure in your profession and rather cruel. "Repulsive, pathetic, misogyny, liar, brawler, false accusations" From the heart the mouth speaks.
I'm real touched by the show of affection. NOT.
1517 wrote: Why would you ask for my interpretation if I lie all the time? You are not interested in dialogue, but monologue, while only accepting the views of others that are not necessarily in accordance with scripture, but are in line with Observer. Truth doesn't need a faction nor to fear those who act according to their pride and passion. Maturity advances when we can acknowledge the truth from those of which we are enemies, not by disregarding God's use in such people.
One can tell a great deal about a person from the premium they put on God's truth, and you put NO premium on it. You put a premium on "church teaching" or as we call it the Magisterium, a very RCC concept.
1517 wrote: ...Further, when I have made a mistake, I have acknowledged it, you allude the very principle that you demand of others. God uses women, but also has set offices for the man and for the woman. The husband and wife duo in Acts certainly helped Apollo out, but not the wife alone. Paul dined and spoke with Lydia, but remained the authority. We would rather defend the culturally established offices for men and women than uphold the established scriptural offices. That is my interpretation.
You really are a pathetic excuse for a Christian, and Yes from your postings to date you act more like a devil than you do a converted person. Lying, making false accusations, brawling, misogyny thinly disguised as sanctimony etc.
I finally caught up with the postings on another thread, where 2 people picked you up viz. Clarity and Clarity 2. You made an allegation which you never made good and lied and got found out and never apologized. So much for you acknowledging mistakes.
As for your hermeneutic, if that is what you call scriptural exposition, God help us all. Explain to us all why Calvin was wrong on 1 Tim 2 verses?