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If you read the signs of the times in which we live, you would quickly realise that the spirit of lawlessness is abroad and so the end times are drawing very near.
There is already a falling away (see 2 Thess. 2.3) and before too long the man of sin, the son of perdition, will be revealed.
If those who profess the name of Christ fall away (remove themselves a great distance from true doctrine and right living) what hope is there for wordly organisations howsoever founded upon biblical morality?
SteveR wrote: In their understanding, Justification is a process that requires Sanctification. In our understanding, Sanctification is a process that does not take place until after Justification. The new birth means different things because of different doctrines Like I stated earlier, just as babies do not understand the biological process of their new birth, the same is true for many in their spiritual birth
Sound the trumpet!! The enemy is within the camp!!
Michael Hranek wrote: I believe with some holding to "Calvinism" their systematic theology is wrong from its core/foundation up.....
I never brought up Calvinism nor did I seek to defend the WCF. However, I do believe that the excerpt from the WCF which you quoted and harshly criticized has biblical warrant and that is what I sought to discuss with you from scripture.
Michael Hranek wrote: If you are having difficulty understanding.....
There is plenty I don't understand so I study the bible daily with an open mind and always pray for God's guidance. But I believe I do understand your position so i will not press the matter further. Thank you for your kind responses and may God's blessings abide with you.
Michael Hranek wrote: Observation Post I believe you are starting from a faulty premise on at least two points. First a faulty view of the Sovereignity of God and the will of God Second a faulty view of what dead in trespasses and sins means, and God's involvement in the lives of sinners, to bring them to repentance and faith and salvation.
I spoke nothing of my views in the areas you mentioned so how could you possibly conclude my views are faulty? Instead I quoted two passages of scripture and asked a couple simple questions based on those texts. You took a negative position on an excerpt from the WCF and I believe the texts I quoted actually uphold the quote from the WCF.
If your criticism of the WCF quote is biblically justifiable then it should be an easy thing to answer the simple questions I posed from the two passage from John's gospel. As I believe we both will agree, a correct view will not encounter contradictions no matter where we take our view in the bible. I will await your response.
Michael Hranek wrote: Q The rest of mankind God was pleased, according to the unsearchable counsel of His own will, whereby He extendeth or withholdeth mercy, as He pleaseth, for the glory of His sovereign power over His creatures, to pass by; and to ordain them to dishonour and wrath, for their sin, to the praise of His glorious justice EOQ
If Jesus hates the lost as much as some who hold to the doctrines of "total irresistable predestination" claim He does... I suppose that to be a cruel and hurtful as possible to them "this jesus" could give them an invitation "he" has no intention whatsoever of honoring in their lives as "he" only had tham to be born and live so "he" could hate them and damn them to hell forever... is this your Jesus?
Jhn 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
What is the fate of those whom the Father doesn't give to the Son? Do you agree with me that Jesus is able to perform His Father's will?
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. (John 6:39)
If we agree that Jesus is able then what can be concluded about those who perish?
Michael Hranek wrote: Are you trying to confuse the issue of the lost coming to the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation with those who have come to Him and are saved and are born again children of God?
No Michael. But I hope you are not saying that John 6:44-45 teaches the lost can come to the Son before being drawn by the Father which according to Isaiah 54 and Gal 4:21-31 means being born of the seed of Sarah and Abraham. The new birth comes by the hearing of the uncorrupted gospel and is the ministry of the Holy Spirit (earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the body), Comforter and living water which by the operation of God quickens and regenerates a dead heart producing repentance, faith and the good works of brotherly love. This is the reason Paul taught....
no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. (1 Cor 12:3)
.... and this confession is fundamental to salvation:
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. (Romans 10:9-10)
The heart must first be sprinkled with clean water and purified.
Michael Hranek wrote: John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall all be taught by God. THEREFORE everyone who HAS HEARD AND LEARNED FROM THE FATHER comes to Me.
Hearing and learning from the Father certainly goes AGAINST the theology of life/regeneraion BEFORE and APART FROM FAITH.
"It is written in the prophets, And they shall all be taught by God."
To understand what Jesus meant by "they all" one must consult the source prophecy (Isaiah 54:13) which reveals "they all" means Sarah's children or the born again children of promise born of the incorruptible seed of Abraham and Sarah which is Christ. To get the complete picture the entire chapter of Isaiah 54 speaks of the children of Sarah (Zion) and verse 1 is quoted by Paul in Gal 4:27 in his two covenants discourse (Gal 4:21-31).
It's the born again (regenerated) who are taught by God to love thy neighbor as thyself; the good works we are ordained to walk in which follows repentance and faith upon hearing the Word of salvation.
1 Thes 4:9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.
Nathan wrote: Responding I said "Didn't Jesus say that narrow is the way to life and few that be who find it. And Wide is the way that lead to death and many travel on it." (My Paraphrase) There was agreement. "So" I said "Isn't Christendom the worlds largest religion?" It went unchallenged. The lecture looked concerned. I continued "Thus would not Christianity constitute the greatest field of evangelism since it is the widest road we can find in the world." You could have heard a pin drop.
And a certain woman, which had an issue of blood twelve years, And had suffered many things of many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was nothing bettered, but rather grew worse, When she had heard of Jesus, came in the press behind, and touched his garment. For she said, If I may touch but his clothes, I shall be whole.
And straightway the fountain of her blood was dried up; and she felt in her body that she was healed of that plague. And Jesus, immediately knowing in himself that **virtue had gone out of him**, turned him about in the press, and said, Who touched my clothes? (Mark 5:24-30)
Even if the shroud is authentic the power to heal did not come from clothing or a burial cloth but from He who wore it. But more importantly....
But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. (Is 53:5)
Lance Eccles wrote: Unless you do something to merit the graces that Christ has obtained for you....
And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. (Rom 5:16)
The free gift is... well... free; no merit but Christ's.
Interesting wrote: Arminianism has triumphed. This great theological battle was won without warfare, with few debates, with "dueling magazine articles." How ironic that in a day when theology no longer matters to most people, one of the great theological battles of all times seems to have been settled.
Nothing has been settled until the last trumpet sounds at which time there will be no turning back. In the mean time we can consider if the path we have chosen is narrow or broad.... if few walk there or many.
PILUT wrote: Faith is not a gift...salvation is a gift. Eph. 2:8-9. A close grammatical study will show that the subject of a sentence can not be in a prepositional phrase, thus, "Grace" nor "Faith" is the gift. The word "salvation" is the subject that "it" is referring to.
If faith is not "a" gift contrary to Gal 5:22 then what is faith, which, btw, is the survey question? Faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness. Are you telling us fallen mankind has innate righteousness (the RCC calls it previent grace) even though God tells us in Isiah 54:17 that the righteousness of the children of promise is from Him?
Will you apply the same "grammatical study" to Romans 10:17 and tell us faith doesn't come from the Word which is Spirit and Truth but instead comes from hearing even though Hebrews 12:2 tells us plainly that Jesus is the author and finisher of faith? How will you answer Paul....
Who maketh thee to differ from another and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? Now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it? (1 Cor 4:7)
Those who proclaim faith is your own and with it you believed unto righteousness and salvation (Rom 10:9-10) are only fooling yourselves to your eventual shame.
A Bible Christian Who Believes wrote: But I will Trust on What I Know For A FACT The Holy Bible Teaches/Says on "The Sons Of GOD"/EBEs-Aliens-ETs-Etc., "The Earth was (became) without form and void" and in the Other References of Holy Scripture that Address The Subject regarding EBEs, Aliens, "ETs", Etc.
Since you know these things for a FACT perhaps you shoud enlighten the rest of us before you meander on with more FACTS. What facts uphold your continued posting of "The Sons Of GOD"/EBEs-Aliens-ETs-Etc."? You keep telling us that the sons of God before the deluge are ETs and you swore that you do not, will not, pervert Holy Scripture. Produce your facts or cease the preversion.
A Bible Christian Who Believes wrote: #2. Or "Explaining Them Away" as Observantion Post is Futilely Attempting To Do with his below posted comment--as I have NOT, Do Not, Nor Can Not EVER pervert THE HOLY SCRIPTURE in Any Shape, Way or Form !
Interesting how simply paying no heed to one subject while being adamant about another could be misconstrued so badly. I suppose the same way they see ETs in Genesis and some mysterious earth age never mentioned again throughout scripture.
Continue on but just don't try to tell us the bible supports your thesis.
A Bible Christian Who Believes wrote: They are called in Holy Scripture "The Sons Of God" [see/read Genesis 6:1-4 as/per "The Sons OF God" being "EBE's/Aliens"; and, Genesis 1:1-3 as/per the "gap-theory" or "The Re-organized/Re-created(?) Earth".
I am not fighting for my Christian Friend; He/She can Very Well & Does Fight Very Well For His/Her Own Self. I'm just explaining/stating to the Readers of this Article my Logical, Biblical & Historically-Documented Reasons for Believing, with my Christian Friend (He doesn't even need to "Believe It" anymore: as He Knows it/Them to be Spiritual, Psychological & Physical FACTS ALREADY !) in the Existence of Extra-Terrrestrial-Biological-Entities (EBE's), Aliens or "ET's" as others choose to call Them.
If you and your friend want to believe in ETs you will get no fuss from me but when you start forcing the bible to teach their creation/existance through eisegesis that is going over the top.
The possibilities of what the bible may teach from silence are as vast as the fertile imaginations of men. It's a perversion of Holy Scripture to insert an earth age between Gen 1:1-2 and it is equally as great a perversion to assume the sons of God before the deluge were ETs. You will get no rest here doing this.
I agree but then I wonder what to do with the following verse (Is 11:10) which Paul cites in Romans 15:12 in conjunction with three previous citation centered on the calling of the Gentiles. Any thoughts from either of you?
Thinking Christian wrote: Thanks fo the reply OB. Sorry mine has taken so long to get to you, busy of late. Amen? yes indeed. I agree totally with your post.
That quite alright however it is by chance that I saw your reply since I don't post very often.
Thinking Christian wrote: Do you see being conformed to His image as being the same as being saved?
We are only partially conformed to His image upon salvation having received the Spirit; the downpayment of our inheritace. The balance comes at the redemption of our body when in an instant we are changed and receive a glorified body like His. Amen?
Preacher wrote: So to say "I am not a follower of Calvin" is fine, as long as you explain yourself.
My posts should do that then but I don't post much any more so... doctrines of grace... yes.
I appreciate your zeal and love of God and His Christ and His appointed means of salvation and I am equally zealous and grateful for the same but I remind you once again that the survey question specifically asks if "justification" is by faith alone and this was my sole purpose of commenting to prepgirl410. I neither agreed or disagreed with her comment because it is based on a faulty premise for "salvation" is by the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.
If you don't feel it is God honoring to want to understand the different biblical ingredients, if you will, which comprise our Lord's grace I certainly respect your conviction to not do so.