As Sola Scriptura pointed out, Calvin was mentored by Augustine who was mentored by Plato.
Gnostic antinomian fatalistic beliefs go back to the Garden of Eden when Satan first said, Yeah, hath God said? and Ye shall be as gods.
Everything that happens is not God's will. God isn't the author of evil, isn't picking people based on DNA, the luck of the draw, or by whim to bestow eternal life. Rather, God allows humans made in the image of God to demonstrate their faith, through sifting and trying, to determine whose faith is enduring and strong, worthy of eternal life.
God doesn't need anymore Heavenly rebellions such as happened when Lucifer decided to exalt himself higher than God.
Many presume to rewrite God's Word, to redefine words according to their will; to twist, isolate and wrest scripture away from the whole counsel of God, to their own destruction. Many try to nullify God's Word as being written to everybody but Christians.
If the Bible isn't written to believers, then what book is for Christians?
The writings of Calvin, Matthew Henry, Spurgeon, Scofield, Darby? Augustine, Plato, Constantine, the Catholic popes, apparitions of "Mary," Matreya, the Illuminati, Joseph Smith, H. Ron Hubbard, Madam Blavatsky, Marx? The Cabala, the Talmud?
JD, you didn't answer the question about falling from grace. All you did was agree that the Judaizers were wrong, never addressed that Paul said it was possible to fall from grace, even that they HAD fallen from grace. You have some new definition now for "grace," I see. How special.
Paul did say it, and that's exactly what he meant. Paul was shocked at how quickly the new Christians were turning away from the faith once delivered.
Some of the antinomians say even if they did turn away they were "never saved to begin with."
Believing is a continual thing, as Jesus said, to "abide" in Him, that failure to stick around, stay with Him, cling to him, stay connected to Him would result in the Holy Spirit drying up, leaving, and the person would wither on the vine and be broken off.
Saved people on the vine, bearing fruit, but who stopped, who quenched, grieved and insulted the spirit, dried up, withered, and died.
The early Christians debated only whether once a person has lost their salvation, can they get it back again? That was the only question. Not if they could lose it at all, but if once lost they could get it back.
No wonder Jesus said only a few people would make it to Heaven. Time to start trusting in Jesus while there is still time, stop trusting in OSA
Honduras, you are not in submission to the Bible. You have learned a doctrine, a creed, and nothing will shake you from it, certainly not the Bible. No matter what scripture you are confronted with, you will either ignore it or explain it away.
So you have not received a love of the truth. You think God is ready to spend an eternity with snow covered dung, even though God's Word says otherwise.
For example, we are told in Revelation that we will go to Hell if we take the mark. This is regardless of whether we ever said the sinner's prayer or not, sincerely, and were born again.
Why do you think the martyrs were willing to die agonizing deaths of torture rather than renounce their faith? Because Jesus said, if we deny him, he will deny us. They believed that.
This is why it's not over until it's over, and even Paul said he "hadn't apprehended" yet, and knew there were still more tests of his faith ahead.
If it wasn't possible to fall away, why is this word even used in the Bible at all.
You are just plain stubborn, think this OSAS creed is the gospel, and it's not. It's just a stupid creed, and a false one at that. You're supposed to believe in Jesus, not a creed.
Honduras, Maybe you should read Ezekiel 33, the whole chapter.
4: Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet,and taketh not warning; if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head.
5 He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning; his blood shall be upon him. But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul.
6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the peopel be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his inquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.
8 When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his inquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way tao turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou has delivered thy soul.
The whole point of this is that we must stay in good standing with God, abide in the vine as Jesus said, or we will die spiritually, and if we die physically while we are spiritually also dead, we go to Hell, just like we read in the parable of the sower, the third example, who was once fruitful, but became unfruitf
Mike from NY, thank you for your post on what the Bible says about "Die in your sins."
You are right, that phrase is not used as much as my memory told me it was. I should have checked first, but I can't find my concordance, and just went from memory.
Rather, there is a lot of teaching on this in Ezekiel 3 and 33.
33:12, 18, 19 The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth. When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath commited, he shall die for it..When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby. But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby.
This mirrors the teachings of Jesus parable of the sower, five virgins, unjust and lazy servants, abiding in the vine, prodigal son, Saul, Solomon, David, Judas, Demas, foolish widows, etc.
Abigail, there's nothing wrong with using titles or other monikers. What can possibly be wrong with that?
I meant no offense. Some of the people like to ride me about monikers here because they don't have any scripture or facts to refute my postings, so they have to nitpick about stupid stuff like monikers.
It doesn't bother me a bit.
God bless you. You hold your own very well on this forum with a bunch of knuckleheads, and I'm with you all the way.
Mr. Potato Head, what is so silly about my comment? Or are we supposed to consider that a compliment, since you are just a potato head, if you think something we say is silly?
And if you tell us something we say is great, that means it's really quite ridiculous?
I can't figure you out, but I guess that's because you're a potato head?
Abigail's post at 6:19 today was good, and this comment: "God did not strike people dead in the OT or in the NT to take them to heaven... When the Israelites were put to death for disobedience to the Law, they DIED IN THEIR SINS and will perish in hell."
The part about THEY DIED IN THEIR SINS.
That's it. That's it right there.
If the prodigal son had died in a drunken brawl, he would not have had time to repent and to "become alive again," and would have gone to Hell.
The backslidden servant thought he "had time" to get right because the Master had gone away on a long journey, but when the Master came home early, he was out of luck and went to Hell.
The five virgins betrothed to the bridegroom had gone dry of the Holy Spirit, and were shut out of the marriage feast.
The branch that failed to abide in the vine withered until finally it just dried up and was broken off, and burned.
Peter denied Jesus three times and had Peter not repented, Jesus would not be an advocate for Peter today before the Father and Peter would be in Hell.
Judas did not repent, but chose Death rather than Life, and went to Hell.
This is what is meant by "die in your sins," a phrase that is used a lot in the Bible. Check your concordance and see.
I can only wonder how Matthew Henry came to be seen as an "authority." His interpretations are so off-the-wall. Who cares what Matthew Henry thinks or doesn't think, and who decided he was an authority? Probably those who love the OSAS heresy and want some kind of enclopedic tome to give credence to what the Scriptures don't.
Jesus teaches that our salvation is conditional upon abiding in Jesus, but Henry says if we don't abide we were never saved to begin with. This is just ludicrous. He just makes these flat statements with absolutely no scripture to back it up.
He promotes OSAS, which is the popular heresy going around, promoted on TV, in all the cemetaries, and embraced everywhere, Satan's favorite heresy, so of course Matthew Henry is esteemed as a trusted commentator. Jesus said, what man highly esteems, God sees as abomination.
We can trace the OSAS heresy right back to Plato, down to Augustine, down to Calvin, fine-tuned by people like Matthew Henry.
Twisting a few scriptures to make them say what you want, but ignoring hundreds of other scriptures which say the opposite disqualifies anybody from being an authority on anything. Matthew Henry is not in submission to the Bible.
It is a flat out lie, wishful thinking, and a damnable heresy, a very lame one at that, that says the words of Jesus are in code to the Jews.
This is the heresy of the Dispensationalists, who tell us only a few of Paul's epistles apply to Christians, and even those are segmented and explained away as only applying to certain select groups (ie pastors, deacons).
They try to say that if Jesus was preaching to a crowd of Jews or to his disciples, that means those words are not for Christians.
They claim Hebrews is a throwaway book for Christians.
HyperD is the worst heresy of all, worse than Mormonism, because it steals away, literally nullifies God's Word to Christians.
And what is left, they don't treat that part very well either.
Beware the HyperD Scofieldites. They truly strain at a gnat and swallow a camel, much as the Catholics who build a religion out of literal interpretations of things which are meant to be allegorical.
Remember the HyperD "Fundamentalist" poster who condemned most everyone on the board who would not submit to his demand to repeat a scripture verbatim in 1John, called them devils and antichrists? Yet this same person claimed Paul was a wicked sinner to the day he died.
He said IF you abide in me and IF my words abide in you, you will bear much fruit.
Jesus said, to ABIDE in the vine, in Him. He said that IF we DON'T ABIDE, that we will wither and die on the vine and be broken off.
How do we do that? Be WALKING in the Spirit. If we WALK in the Spirit, we will not quench, grieve or insult the Holy Spirit away. The Holy Spirit is our seal.
Jesus said to ASK and be filled with the Holy Spirit, that IF we are not full of the Holy Spirit that we will be full of demons instead. Jesus said that somebody who is delivered of the demons must fill up with the Spirit, or the demons will come back and bring all their friends.
There is so much teaching in the Bible of what we are expected to do. Getting saved is easy. Jesus said to count the cost and not look back, or we will fall flat on our face and not be able to finish.
Salvation is an ongoing thing, and it our job to stay connected to Jesus. If it wasn't possible for us to do this, Jesus wouldn't have commanded us to. If it was an "automatic," why is Jesus so concerned and giving so many warnings to believers (his own disciples) about their responsibility to stay connected to Him, that they might bear fruit, attain Heaven a
SOTS, You're wrong that I didn't read or reply to what you said. I thought about the whole thing carefully. I didn't understand that you were claiming every believer will go through a baptism of fire on judgment day that will burn up all their evil works and leave the good works shining.
I didn't take it this way because it's talking about burning up works here, not people. At the end it says that a person whose works are all burned up will still be saved, but as by fire. But the person with good works won't be saved as by fire at all (ie no baptism of fire for those with the good works). Answer?
I answered as much as I was able to in the space alotted, which I tried real hard to cram everything in. Your point about the chastening of God does not prove that people won't lose their salvation, just like if you chasten your own kids it doesn't mean they won't still go to the dark side. The prodigal son is an example.
If it wasn't possible to fall away, the word wouldn't be in the Bible (apostasy) and Jesus would not have warned us to abide in the vine, not to mention the example of Saul, Solomon, Judas, the five virgins who went dry, the lazy servant, backslidden servant, Demas, Hymaenus and Alexander, etc.
Honduras, you have no authority to change the words of the King James Bible.
Furthermore, you have a whole Bible to harmonize this scripture with, and you can't isolate scripture from the rest of scripture, especially something that's "iffy," and build a religion on it.
And your audacious redefining of words and plain meanings of the gospels will bring down all the plagues in Revelation upon you. You are not in subjection to the scripture and your attitude is horrible toward the Bible, just like JD's.
JD likes to cry about my monikers because that's about all he's got to cry about.
JD uses multiple monikers, especially when he disgraces himself, which is a lot.
For example, that was really cute JD, posting as K. Amos. If I wrote a mumbo jumbo post like that, I wouldn't want anybody to know it was mine either.
But I realize you were trying to give the impression that there's other Israel Firsters here who think like you (besides Honduras, that is).
JD thinks people are antisemitic if they don't want to hand over almost the entire Bible, including the four gospels and all of Hebrews, most of Revelation, the first 20 chapters of Acts, and of course the entire Old Testament to the "Jews only."
And JD thinks we should be helping the Jews take over the world and build their new temple so when the fake Jewish Messiah/antichrist comes he can have a nice place from which to rule the world and martyr Christians.
And JD thinks Christ-hating Jews w/ their occultic Talmud and Kabala are God's Chosen, and Christians are just second-class nobodies, that God judges people by their DNA, not their spirit.
Honduras, playing dumb says: "Secret code that only Jews can understand???? I really have no idea what you are talking about with that, but I can see you are not ..."
But two posts earlier Honduras said this:
"The lazy servant and the prudent servants refer to national Israel, some have been responsable with what has been givin to them (the Word of God, the promeses, the Messiah) and others have not and have rejected Christ and will go to hell."
Honduras, don't waste my time. I don't post with people who play games, who play dumb, and who state outrageous heresies (ie that the Four Gospels are written in code to the Jews) and then try to bluster their way out. I have you on my list of "Do not post with" people along with a few others.
Hopalong, you are starting to annoy me. I don't really care if you think I'm rational or not or if you think I had a good reply or not. This is just a discussion board called Sermon Audio, not the Supreme Court, and you are not the Supreme Court Justice, and nobody is standing before you awaiting your opinions on matters of little or no importance.
I think when you were a child maybe you got your way too much, and when you were attending the government school you had too many people trying to massage your self-esteem, making a huge fuss of praise over every little thing you did.
1. Heresies promoted which try to take my Bible away from me and give it to the Jews.
2. Heresies which claim apathy and fatalism is virtue, and serving God is sin.
3. Heresies which claim God is the author of evil and is creating people and making them evil so he can send them to Hell.
You said: "there are things in the gospels for the Jews, other things for the church, and other things for everyone." What gives you the right to claim that Jesus' parables are some secret code to the Jews, and that the meaning to them is any different than it would be to anybody else.
Why you would want to explain away the words of Jesus when he came and walked among us is more than my mind can fathom, using the lamest of lame reasonings that these words don't mean what they say, but have other meanings, secret meanings only a Jew can understand.
Hopalong, SOTS is abbreviation for Student Of The Scriptures.
Our postings are very limited and we have to save every character to try to get in what we try to say.
Used to be they weren't as short, they were archived, and you could post consecutively, but SA decided to change things and do it this way. It's kind of better this way, because JD used to post reams of irrelevant scriptures out of the blue for a distraction or smokescreen if he dug himself in too deep of a hole with his heretical statements.
I used to put up a lot of articles, can't do that anymore. I'd boil them down first and then make sure I put them up so you could read them top down, get them all ready and put them up together.
Somebody named Walt used to post here all the time and would put up 20 in a row of the Institutes. He had special software to help him do it.
So this way is definitely better, but I think SA should give us a little more space to post our message because it's really hard to try to squeeze even one thought in, let alone try to make more than one point, knowing you only get one chance because there are no consecutive postings allowed anymore.